Tabs only build muscle memory in me...

[DaveKell]

The following is a reply I made in another thread I felt a wider audience could offer more insight into.

This post is about some observations I made this past weekend pertaining to learning to play songs with tabs. I may ramble a bit trying to formulate my thoughts into something comprehensible, but that's a normal event for me, so hang on.

Lately while playing guitar it seemed to me I was missing a song in my repertoire. I finally remembered it was Morning Has Broken as a fingerstyle piece it took me a few days to nail down. It was pitiful when I tried to play it, I couldn't even get close. I got out the book I learned it from and within an hour had it nailed back down. I noticed something immediately. Whenever I messed up I was incapable of picking back up where I left off, I had to completely start over. It dawned on me I wasn't really learning to play a song but instead was committing to muscle memory a series of finger positions that necessitated always starting over to achieve the proper flow of the movements. Try as I might I couldn't pick the song up anywhere but at the beginning to play it. I tried it with several other songs I learned from tab and the result was the same.

Granted, it could be I have an undiagnosed learning disability or my aging brain requires crutches now to accomplish playing fingerstyle pieces. The muscle memory component of playing is the only thing for me that learning from tabs conveys. I don't know whether that's a good thing or bad.

Toby's Walker's new dvd Take a Solo is a completely different concept for me. Instead of rote memorization of fingering positions I take from it a roadmap of how to incorporate what I hear in my head to playing on the fingerboard, along with the ability to work on a given phrase without having to start completely over every time from the beginning. I think Toby hit on a genius concept with this dvd and I hope he continues to apply this approach to future instructional material. I don't know if any of this makes sense or even if I am entirely alone in this experience. I just know that for the first time ever with instructional material I am learning to PLAY instead of just committing to muscle memory a bunch of movements and I thoroughly enjoy it.

So am I crazy or am I onto something here?

[HHP]

I've learned a lot of tunes via TAB and find that once I have the tune down and can play it comfortably, I can play any phrases or segments of it on command. What I can't do is verbally describe how to play it to someone else if I don't have a guitar in hand. I can show them, just can't tell them.

In playing with others, the most common problems I see are difficulty in transitioning from rhythm to lead and difficulty in doing repeats reliably. I think some get so focused on learning one part of a tune at a time, they don't ever practice putting it all together while listening to another player at the same time.

[Pualee]

I like tab, because it lets me see HOW others are playing a song.

But as you mentioned, it does not teach you anything else very efficiently.

I try to learn songs in 'scale positions' outside of the first position, so I understand how the intervals are related, and I can instantly transpose keys by shifting my position, or change octaves easily. I can also then add the parts I like of a song into another, but I rarely learn a song verbatim from a music sheet.

I also got Toby's "Take a Solo", and very recently got the freeware "Audacity" on my PC, and linked it to my Mustang amp. So I learn the chord progressions, lay down the rhythm, and then work on my own 'lead' stuff. My genre is praise music, so as long as the rhythm and vocals are there... I'm safe with about anything else I do. I can get a song down very quickly now (a week) by learning the chords, lyrics, and then adding my own feelings to the lead.

I feel more like I am learning music, and how it all fits together... instead of learning to recite someone else's music from a tab sheet. So, a conclusion: tab is a tool, but it's not the only one! It is good to see the 'how' part for a recital, but doesn't necessarily translate into understanding music.

[JonPR]

My experience is exactly the same with some classical pieces I learned from notation. So it isn't tab that's to blame.
IMO, it's a completely natural way for the brain to memorise a task such as playing a complex fingerstyle piece. You do it bit by bit, bar by bar, and string them together in a linear fashion.
You can (at the same time) develop an overview of the shape of the whole piece, and a sense of how the melodies unfold - so you know the sound of what's coming. But that won't help you if your fingers forget their parts.
I've often had the exact same experience of playing a piece from memory (that I might have learned 30 or 40 years ago) it goes perfectly up to a point and then -... there's a blank, like a link has dropped out of the chain. My aural memory of the piece is nowhere near good enough (note accurate) to work it out that way. I have to go back to the book.
It's not always at the same point in the tune. Sometimes I can steam on past that previous break (without looking it up in the meantime). Next time I might hit the blank earlier. The "drop-outs" are not in fixed places.
I can usually remember more of the piece past the blank spot. Chunks of the chain survive intact. But it's definitely like a subconscious muscle memory thing. I usually can't remember a specific bar in a piece, unless I take a run-up at it from the beginning; the chain has to unwind in the right order. There's too much information for you to be able hold the whole thing (or even large chunks of it) simultaneously in your brain.
And personally I don't think there's an alternative. Music is a linear (time-based) phenomenon anyway.

I've noticed with the kids I teach - aged 7-10 - that, without me telling them, they insist on learning in that linear way. For every new bar of a tune they learn, they have to go back to the beginning and play it from there, like they're constantly stacking the new on to the old. They find it very hard to start in the middle, to practice one specific bar in the middle.
I.e, they don't learn bar 1, then bar 2, then bar 3, etc; They learn bar 1, then bars 1+2, then bars 1+2+3, etc. (They learn from notation, btw, memorising note names and fret/string numbers.)
I've found it one of the most distinctive and remarkable aspects of how kids learn. Ask them (once they've learned several bars) to start at bar 2 or bar 3, and they can't get their heads round it. It has to be from bar 1. All of them do it, instinctively, so it must be some natural brain process (in kids anyway).

Having said that, I'm sure a different perspective - like the one you describe - will help in addition to the rote learning (especially with adults). Naturally, understanding intellectually how each melodic phrase works, as you're playing it, must help. It's like learning a poem word by word without knowing what it means, as against understanding it while you're learning it. The latter has to be better, if only to maximise the expression; but also it ought to help you remember what comes next, because it becomes an organic whole, not just a linear chain of pieces.
Personally, I'm not sure - for something like a classical piece where every single note needs to be in place (100% right ones, 0% wrong ones) - that a "hearing it in one's head" method is going to be suffiicient on its own. If you're going to play it from memory, it has to be done (IMO) in that bit-by-bit linear fashion. Get bar 1 under your fingers, then bar 2, then link them together, then bar 3; etc.

For looser blues or ragtime pieces - where a little improvisation is OK provided you have the gist - then knowing the genre intimately is essential; it enables you to fake your way past a "dropout", by improvising the right sort of thing. So while I might transcribe (say) a Blind Blake tune note-by-note accurately to start with, I don't worry about 100%precision when I perform it. (I try, but I don't worry about mistakes.) That's because I'm sure he wouldn't have either. There are idiomatic phrases, and as long as you "get the idea", and the standout licks, that's good enough.

[ShawnH]

I'll keep it short and say that I think you are certainly "onto something"

[stanron]

Me too with the starting from the beginning thing. In fact it's a deliberate technique when it comes to learning lyrics. With stuff I've learned by ear it's not so much an issue but if it comes from paper in any way, back to the start is good.

Somewhere, possibly on this forum, I recently read about someone advocating learning the last bar first. Then the second to last and so forth.

The idea is that the more of the piece you play the easier it is to play it because you've played it more times. I've not tried it, but then I don't learn much from paper anyway and it wouldn't make sense with lyrics. Anyone else heard of this?

[rick-slo]

In this regard it does not much matter how you originally learn it. That will soon be long past. It is how often you practice it, how well
you hear the melody lines, and recognize the song's structure when you practice it. In playing one thought usually leads to the next,
and one hand movement to the next. In most pieces you just can't just jump in cold at any point and start playing. You can mentally
think about how the tune is put together (sections and bridges) when you play it and then perhaps develop more "starting" points.

[j3ffr0]

What most people who just learn tabs are missing is music theory. I can memorize tabs very quickly because I have a good grasp of music theory, and everything relates to that. Everything in the tab is usually a variation on some other familiar pattern (or at least concept). Knowledge of theory (more music if you prefer) also allows me to correct for mistakes in the tabs or to vary them as I desire.

Everything comes easier once you have a good foundation in theory. Back when I was coming up there were very few tabs. Theory made it a lot easier for me to learn the songs I wanted to play by ear.

[HHP]

Originally Posted by j3ffr0

What most people who just learn tabs are missing is music theory. I can memorize tabs very quickly because I have a good grasp of music theory, and everything relates to that. Everything in the tab is usually a variation on some other familiar pattern (or at least concept). Knowledge of theory (more music if you prefer) also allows me to correct for mistakes in the tabs or to vary them as I desire.

Everything comes easier once you have a good foundation in theory. Back when I was coming up there were very few tabs. Theory made it a lot easier for me to learn the songs I wanted to play by ear.

Understanding the Theory of Astrophysics does not mean you can fly to Mars.

[Doug Young]

For me, the big step in learning someone else's tune is to "get it off the paper", no matter how it's notated. Tab, standard notation, chord chart, whatever, if you're reading the written music, or seeing it in your head, you haven't internalized the music. Ideally, you know in your ear and head, the chord progression, the melody, the bass line, and then the details of the arrangement.

I heard Michael Chapdelaine describe how he handles memory in a workshop once - he practices tunes in his head in incredible detail: "the first note is an A, it's on the 3rd string, 2nd fret, it's a quarter note, and I play with with my 2nd finger. The 2nd note is..." all the way thru the tune. Exhausting, and a kind of mechanical approach, but do that a few times, and I suspect you'll never forget the tune.

Another tip I picked up from Michael is to practice at half speed, with a metronome. It's good for cleanliness and technique, but it's also great for memory, because you're really focused on what you're playing. I've had this weird thing where I'm performing a tune, and suddenly start seeing the tune a new way, and I'm going "hmm, I never noticed that my hand plays that shape in this part before" :-) At that point I'm hosed. But by practicing at half-speed, I tend to notice this sort of thing in practice and it really gets burned into my memory, and I am less likely to forget. You also have time at half speed to really notice the chord progression, the bass line, etc.

I think memory and fingerstyle is always an ongoing issue, you're memorizing a lot of stuff in any arrangement! Every pro player I know talks about the need to do constant maintenance on their repertoire, no matter what approach you use.

[Toby Walker]

Hi Dave,

I agree with what everyone else is saying regarding the memorization and maintenance of a piece, whether that's learned by tab or notation. There are several songs like that I have in my repertoire and every week or so I have to go over them in order to keep the muscle memory in check. When learning a new piece I'll also use techniques such as slowing down the tempo, thinking about the chord progression or even the little shapes my fingers are making. All of this contributes to keeping the song locked into my hands and head.

Yet those are only a small portion of songs in my toolbox. The remaining songs usually have some kind of recognizable structure to them which distinguishes them from each other, e.g., 'Bad Luck Blues' compared to 'Tootie Blues.' While both of these songs are in the key of C what distinguishes one from the other are a certain set of motifs or licks which I'll play every time. The huge difference is what I do after that, during the verses and especially during a solo, which is to use improvisation to come up with a variety of hopefully exciting, new ideas.

In my opinion both types of pieces generate their own kind of uniqueness and excitement for me, no matter how often I play them. Thank goodness for that.

[Paultergeist]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

For me, the big step in learning someone else's tune is to "get it off the paper", no matter how it's notated. Tab, standard notation, chord chart, whatever, if you're reading the written music, or seeing it in your head, you haven't internalized the music. Ideally, you know in your ear and head, the chord progression, the melody, the bass line, and then the details of the arrangement.

I heard Michael Chapdelaine describe how he handles memory in a workshop once - he practices tunes in his head in incredible detail: "the first note is an A, it's on the 3rd string, 2nd fret, it's a quarter note, and I play with with my 2nd finger. The 2nd note is..." all the way thru the tune. Exhausting, and a kind of mechanical approach, but do that a few times, and I suspect you'll never forget the tune.

Another tip I picked up from Michael is to practice at half speed, with a metronome. It's good for cleanliness and technique, but it's also great for memory, because you're really focused on what you're playing. I've had this weird thing where I'm performing a tune, and suddenly start seeing the tune a new way, and I'm going "hmm, I never noticed that my hand plays that shape in this part before" :-) At that point I'm hosed. But by practicing at half-speed, I tend to notice this sort of thing in practice and it really gets burned into my memory, and I am less likely to forget. You also have time at half speed to really notice the chord progression, the bass line, etc.

I think memory and fingerstyle is always an ongoing issue, you're memorizing a lot of stuff in any arrangement! Every pro player I know talks about the need to do constant maintenance on their repertoire, no matter what approach you use.

I just wanted to say "thank you" to Doug for this post. I find this information helpful. I had never considered the "half-speed" practice before, but that really makes sense and I think that I will incorporate it into my practice.

As an indicator (for me!) of this utility, I now reflect upon some classical pieces which -- because I was so often focused on building (higher) speed -- I could only play fast! Ask me to slow it to 50%, and I would crash and burn! That should have told me something right there.

Thanks Doug!

[ShawnH]

To expand on my earlier post I find that I have much better command of material that I have:

1. Transcribed by ear

2. Composed - i.e. my own arrangement of a tune, or a composed solo, etc.

I'm not saying that there is not value to learning things via tab and/or notation - I have picked up a great deal of musical vocabulary that way. But across the board - performance, expression, memory, etc. - is substantially better with material that I have transcribed or composed.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by ShawnH

To expand on my earlier post I find that I have much better command of material that I have:

1. Transcribed by ear

...

I used to figure a lot out by ear (before the Internet resources. One other aspect of this also is the time involved in learning a song.

When I would figure out a song, by ear, it would take days or weeks. WHen I have a tab in front of me, it might be doable in minutes or hours. So my brain hasn't retained that info firmly.

Also, part of memorization is building the neura;l pathways so having rest time for your brain to lock those things in helps, as well.

Just another contributing factor, IMO.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by fazool

I used to figure a lot out by ear (before the Internet resources. One other aspect of this also is the time involved in learning a song.

When I would figure out a song, by ear, it would take days or weeks. WHen I have a tab in front of me, it might be doable in minutes or hours. So my brain hasn't retained that info firmly.

Also, part of memorization is building the neura;l pathways so having rest time for your brain to lock those things in helps, as well.

Just another contributing factor, IMO.

Yes, I was just going to point this out, the time spent in learning by ear versus tabs, plus the deconstruction and reconstruction
you have to do in learning by ear. In the long run it's maintenance that counts.

On most of one's originals the melody and tune construction is a given knowledge, and the use of familiar chords, progressions, and picking patterns is frequently a given.