Busking amp recommendation please

[Fret-O'File]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Thanks Fret. I appreciate your constructive feedback. I have given the issue more thought. I decided to go back an append the review. The hissing issue appeared about a week after I wrote the review and I was reluctant, at the time, to go back and fault Carvin for it.

In hindsight, I think that a job worth doing, is worth doing well. So, I would append my review in the future with information that could be relevant.

Also, I'm sort of surprised you found it so positive. I concluded that, despite what the small size and features might suggest, it's not really a great portable acoustic solution. The mid range is too prominent, at listening volume, in my opinion. I think they would do well to revoice the speaker array.

Cheers


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Maybe I was excited about it so read it with rose colored glasses but from what I remember it was positive. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

[Paultergeist]

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I keep coming back to the idea of simply using a good small amp (of which there are many), and then buying a decent rechargeable battery pack w/AC convertor to power it on those occasions where I might have to play away from electricity.

As example, the Goal Zero (brand) "Yeti 150" seems like a decent compromise of size, weight, cost, and power. I just don't see the amp manufacturers putting $200 worth of batteries (and an added 12 pounds of weight) inside of a budget-amp and expecting to make a profit.

In other words, I think maybe we should be looking at battery-power supplies for existing amps, as opposed to amps which already have battery-power inside of them? Just my 2 cents.

[dogdog49]

Originally Posted by Paultergeist

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I keep coming back to the idea of simply using a good small amp (of which there are many), and then buying a decent rechargeable battery pack w/AC convertor to power it on those occasions where I might have to play away from electricity.

As example, the Goal Zero (brand) "Yeti 150" seems like a decent compromise of size, weight, cost, and power. I just don't see the amp manufacturers putting $200 worth of batteries (and an added 12 pounds of weight) inside of a budget-amp and expecting to make a profit.

In other words, I think maybe we should be looking at battery-power supplies for existing amps, as opposed to amps which already have battery-power inside of them? Just my 2 cents.

If you're not competing with a lot of other ambient sounds or looking to fill an amphitheater, the Sunburst Gear and Elite Acoustics amps weigh in at a range from 16 to 24 pounds total, are entirely self-contained, run from 15 to 20 hours on a charge and sound amazing. For larger crowds or more demanding situations where more decibels are needed I agree with Paultergeist's solution. For playing to smaller groups, either in a park or on a streetcorner or any public place where decibel level is limited these new amps are, imho, the state of the art solution. Don't get me wrong, even the little A1 plays pretty loud - louder than I can listen to in my large living room for example - just not anything like concert level. Of course you could easily daisy-chain two mid-size M3's and really make some serious noise, but then you're out almost $700.00 with a bit less convenience. Still a helluva bargain. I know I must sound like a shill for the company but I'm not. I'm just so thrilled with the two I bought. In fact, I'm keeping the little A1 and selling my M3BR8 because even it is plenty loud enough for my needs playing house concerts, coffee houses and groups of 20-30 at a time in the park.

[ricdoug]

It may happen in our lifetime, Paul, as battery technology advances. Automobile manufacturers are scrambling for smaller, lighter and higher storage capacity and are teaming up with other makes to share the costs. Scrapped hybrid and plugin batteries are shipped to countries like Afghanistan that solar charge them and use them to power their homes. When over there in the USMC in the 80's, young children would go house to house and pick up 12 volt lead acid car batteries and charge them up during the day and deliver them back in the afternoon so the families could watch TV shows in the evening and have a single light bulb burning. The Taliban outlawed singing and shows like:

http://www.afghanstar.tv/

...are aired from undisclosed locations. Most of the population watches these outlawed music competitions from behind closed doors.

Tafwacore punk rock bands play in underground clubs all over the Mideast and Persia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqwacore_(film)

The point is that future battery technology will make what we want to do with off the grid music possible for concert length performances. Ric

[martingitdave]

Rick,

Stories like that really provide some perspective regarding the power of music. And, I suppose, to a certain extent, the need for flexible power for music.


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[dannyg1]

[J][/B]

Originally Posted by Paultergeist

I am going to say that I find the direction of the above-cited post to be very confusing.

The first listed reference is from a Wall Street Journal on-line article. As I am not a paid subscriber, I cannot view the post, so the value of including it may be questionable.

The second post I AM able to view. The essence of the news story is that an individual -- after posting a negative review of a professional service on an on-line forum -- was sued for defamation. The moral of the story seems to be to "watch out" when posting negative reviews on-line, as one may incur liability if defamation is perceived.

And here is where I feel like you are not really making sense:

FIRST, you criticize Martingitdave for NOT including negative information in a product review.

THEN, you attempt to support your point above by referencing a story about someone being sued when they DID post negative date (huh....?....that would seem to contradict your point?)

It's not the 'negative' information that exposes one to lawsuits, it's purposefully acting in the interest or against the interest of a company, either injuring the company or the prospective buyer, with incomplete and/or false information.

In this instance, Dave omits the fact that his s600b dies during the review period, you read the review and use the presented info to buy a s600b. Your s600b dies on the third day. Dave admits his died too but he didn't post it because he didn't think that it was relevant info, or in the interest of the 'legs' his review had grown.
You have basis for damage because Dave left out info that was directly relevant to your buying decision.

The articles I linked talk about bloggers who are given products to review , to keep and own after the review is over. It was a big issue a couple of years ago as many manufacturers were caught clandestinely promoting their products through seemingly independant bloggers/postings on forums (and private blogs) like this one.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

[J][/B]

It's not the 'negative' information that exposes one to lawsuits, it's purposefully acting in the interest or against the interest of a company, either injuring the company or the prospective buyer, with incomplete and/or false information.

In this instance, Dave omits the fact that his s600b dies during the review period, you read the review and use the presented info to buy a s600b. Your s600b dies on the third day. Dave admits his died too but he didn't post it because he didn't think that it was relevant info, or in the interest of the 'legs' his review had grown.
You have basis for damage because Dave left out info that was directly relevant to your buying decision.

The articles I linked talk about bloggers who are given products to review , to keep and own after the review is over. It was a big issue a couple of years ago as many manufacturers were caught clandestinely promoting their products through seemingly independant bloggers/postings on forums (and private blogs) like this one.

Can we please just move on?

It's a forum, people are allowed to "think out loud", and the readers are allowed to think by themselves while reading. In don’t believe the readers of the AGF (average age 60) take everything for granted. We read as many threads and posts before we make our mind.

A magazine is a different medium. The author writes and gives information to the readers. It’s most of the time a one-way thing.

A forum is a place people are free to read and write. It’s a dialogue. I personally am not looking for the same information while reading a magazine review or a forum thread. I don’t expect the information to be exhaustive or unbiased. Every month, you will have a Martin vs Taylor or a Gibson vs Martin thread where die-hard fans of each brand will defend their favorite guitars with arguments that can be purposely fallacious (sometimes purposely hilarious too.

I know a guy who would tell you, looking into your eyes that a Martin DX1 sounds way better than any Taylor 814ce. I am sure if the DX1 had a half-broken neck and no strings he would still tell you the Martin DX1 sounds better

Dannyg1, I think that everybody has got your point. I don't think you'll go any further by giving more explanation.

Cuki

[dannyg1]

Well Cuki I have been 'moving on'. If you haven't noticed, I've taken long breaks from posting here to be sure I don't just post something in plain anger.

That doesn't mean that I gave up the right to answer some of the remarkably twisted proposals of wishful logic that have been posited here, like the Paultergeist post I answered above.

I realise that this has been an uncomfortable topic for many of us but it *needed to be said* and I still might answer a post or two from this thread sometime, if only because I get to answer the things people throw out there, directed at me.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

Well Cuki I have been 'moving on'. If you haven't noticed, I've taken long breaks from posting here to be sure I don't just post something in plain anger.

That doesn't mean that I gave up the right to answer some of the remarkably twisted proposals of wishful logic that have been posited here, like the Paultergeist post I answered above.

I realise that this has been an uncomfortable topic for many of us but it *needed to be said* and I still might answer a post or two from this thread sometime, if only because I get to answer the things people throw out there, directed at me.

Thank you Dannyg1,
I have a question for you, how did you find the internal voltage of the dc rails of the TC 150fx, and current consumption? You measured it?

Regards,
Cuki

[dannyg1]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Thank you Dannyg1,
I have a question for you, how did you find the internal voltage of the dc rails of the TC 150fx, and current consumption? You measured it?

Regards,
Cuki

I looked up the spec in TC Helicon Voicesolo 150fx manual and confirmed its power brick rated output. Its average current consumption will be less than 1.5a in use but if its like my Loudbox Mini, I'd peg its average consumption in the field at 0.8-1A.

There are a few electric bicycle packs that are built supply 48v and those could power this amp directly but they're neither light nor inexpensive and the charger would also be big and expensive.

I think its safe to say that the 150fx is best powered via an inverter system. Judging by its consumption rating, it won't last any longer on battery than a Loudbox Mini will.

The Bugera AC60 looks to be the most promising price/performance Small amp for an inverter/battery/charger system and a used large AH (25-50ah) from EBay, a 300-600w pure sine and a 10-25A charger is the best price/performance kit, as separates (It'll run your chosen amp the longest, provide the most stable power, be the most reliable, at least via my own experience as compared to AGM/SLA batteries of various AH rating, and charge in 1-3 hours).

The best all in one Powerbank, will charge in 7-9 hours, has a 30ah battery and a 300w pure sine inverter that's high frequency/switching, so won't start a torque heavy load, but the price has come down some 30% in the last couple of years and I've never run one and don't know anyone who owns it. Its the Suaoki
Powerhouse 400. $329 on EBay now but still $388 on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/POWEROAK-Powe...eywords=suaoki

There are a few competing options, one which has a 500w inverter, another that has a more comforting manufacturing presence in the US, but they're quite a bit more expensive and not appreciably different. The Suaoki Powerhouse is well reviewed on Amazon, if that helps at all.

[roylor4]

Well, I will give some input on a new amp i just received as well as one I have had for a while (Cube Street EX).

The Cube EX has a LOT of power and will easily play to larger crowds, even outdoors. The electric tones are so-so (IMO) but does pretty doggone good handling vocals and acoustic. High cost, fairly high performance. Super portable? Nah, not unless you are Bruce Banner after getting cut off in traffic. Having the carrying case/cover helps a lot but also adds quite a bit of expense.

I just received and began toying with the Fender Passport Mini, and I must say, overall pretty impressed. The Pros far outweigh the cons and although I have not directly a/b'ed it vs. a regular Cube - I have played both and it compares favorable in the volume department and I prefer it in the tone dept. (Mini review coming in the next couple of days). 150 bones new.

My Fender Passport Mini breakdown:

Cons:
1) Quite a bit louder using dc power, will busk well in medium-quiet settings, will not fare well in loud areas outdoors
2) A bit more complicated to use
3) Acoustic modeling is kinda useless, more of a novelty (IMO)
4) Uses C rather than AA batteries
5) MUST use a guitar with preamp for acoustic

Pros:
1) Still fairly loud, especially for it's size
2) Once you install and use the Fuse software you get a LOT of great sounding and very usable electric tones
3) VERY light and compact
4) Extremely Sturdy feeling (time will tell about durability)
5) XLR input - Vocals are a bit bassy (as is my voice), but rolling off bass produce pretty clear vocals
6) 5 year warranty from Fender

Plugged into DC power, this guy is a little beast, seriously. On batteries it is pretty doggone good for it's size too.

IMO, The Fuse software makes this l'il guy superior to the Vox Mini Rhythm 5 (IMO only), although you lose your percussion/beats.

I think this amp is best for electric players but will also do the job for acoustic guys too.

[zhunter]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Well, I will give some input on a new amp i just received as well as one I have had for a while (Cube Street EX).

The Cube EX has a LOT of power and will easily play to larger crowds, even outdoors. The electric tones are so-so (IMO) but does pretty doggone good handling vocals and acoustic. High cost, fairly high performance. Super portable? Nah, not unless you are Bruce Banner after getting cut off in traffic. Having the carrying case/cover helps a lot but also adds quite a bit of expense.

Lots of buskers around here. The Cube varieties are king and they are for a good reason. Many times I have been on the street, hear really nice sounding street performance and walk up on folks using Roland rigs. They work well, sound good, they are a solid, reliable, right sized feature package and they are relatively inexpensive to operate once the initial cost hit is taken. Good performers make money with them.

I have a EX and it is good on the street, plenty loud enough to bring noise complaints if so desired and sounds good for guitar and vocals. I play house parties with mine too. Noisy parties with guitar (me) and vocalist into the Roland. I could bring a plug in amp but the Roland is lighter, accommodates any room layout with no worrying about power or extension cords or taking up a lot of space.

I have a cover with a shoulder strap. Easy carry at right at 17 pounds. Yamaha SLG over the other shoulder and good to go. Rechargeable batteries last a long time.

I held off participating because of the way these threads tend to get hijacked by agendas. But here I am anyway. While it turned out about as I expected, if you don't mind, hold the lecture (not you quoted poster). I am not interested. These amps get the job done well. And there is room for many other selections based on various aspects of need.

hunter

[CASD57]

I've looked for more reviews of the Fender mini but pretty lacking even on YouTube, Thanks!!

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[roylor4]

Originally Posted by zhunter

Lots of buskers around here. The Cube varieties are king and they are for a good reason. Many times I have been on the street, hear really nice sounding street performance and walk up on folks using Roland rigs. They work well, sound good, they are a solid, reliable, right sized feature package and they are relatively inexpensive to operate once the initial cost hit is taken. Good performers make money with them.

I have a EX and it is good on the street, plenty loud enough to bring noise complaints if so desired and sounds good for guitar and vocals. I play house parties with mine too. Noisy parties with guitar (me) and vocalist into the Roland. I could bring a plug in amp but the Roland is lighter, accommodates any room layout with no worrying about power or extension cords or taking up a lot of space.

I have a cover with a shoulder strap. Easy carry at right at 17 pounds. Yamaha SLG over the other shoulder and good to go. Rechargeable batteries last a long time.

I held off participating because of the way these threads tend to get hijacked by agendas. But here I am anyway. While it turned out about as I expected, if you don't mind, hold the lecture (not you quoted poster). I am not interested. These amps get the job done well. And there is room for many other selections based on various aspects of need.

hunter

Yeah Hunter, we use our Cube EX on pretty much every gig we have gotten since it's purchase. It's not perfect - the combined channels of 3 & 4 are substantially weaker than 1 & 2 - even using preamps. The fact is, that it's portability and high (if not perfect) functionality make it an extremely viable choice for us on up to medium sized gigs (100+ people). We do use the adapter when indoors and outdoors when easily accessible though, as it is louder that way. We do have a 300 watt PA but always opt for the cube.

I have yet to use the Passport Mini in the wild yet, but I have been pretty impressed with it's quality thus far - even if I am in the "honeymoon phase". Since I typically carry 2 guitars and a case with blues harps and preamp, a smaller option was particularly interesting for me. As you know yourself, you don't want to carry two loads when you don't have someone to watch your first load while transporting the 2nd. Nice way to lose equipment.

I DO think the smaller Cube Street has a bit more HP than the Passport, but not by much and not enough for me to justify double the cost.

We both agree, I think, that the tone and power of these little busker type amps is pretty impressive in many respects and have improved remarkably in just a few years.

There are bound to be tradeoffs. If people expect the tone of a fully electric 1-2K acoustic rig in a battery powered, sub $500 setup they are bound to be disappointed and have overly high expectations. Those of us that use them find those tradeoffs very acceptable and get great use out of their functionality. I, like you, are grateful for the large variety of options available.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by CASD57

I've looked for more reviews of the Fender mini but pretty lacking even on YouTube, Thanks!!

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I will expound on my finding w/a mini review later. Like you, I found very little info on the Passport. I took a gamble and so far, I am quite pleased.

It will definitely handle small venues as well as busking. The amp modeling is excellent once you download the Fuse software.