ToneDexter Thread (continuation of original thread)

[fiddle fever]

So, I borrowed a Shure SM81 to create some new wavemaps and wow what a big difference on my tone. So far I've used a SM57, AKG C1000s and a SM81. Last week I gigged with my TD with wavemaps created by the AKG, but now comparing them to my new SM81 tracks...it's way better. The AKG's wavemaps have an EQ mid-range tone. I should note that I was super new to the TD and trained a mic quickly and took it off to a gig...not the best idea. Now what I'm doing is training using a certain mic placement and at the end of the training (when you can hear raw mic sound) I'm moving the mic around and retraining using better mic placement. I've used the SM81 with my banjo, fiddle and guitar with really nice results. What's nice is that different mic placement on different instruments takes care of EQing, which means less work for me at a gig!

[midwinter]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I have concluded I HAVE TO get a hold of a better mic.

I may take some time this week to see if I can get a sound I like with an SM57.

I say this because when I did a mic shootout a while back, I thought the 57 sounded pretty good (this was against a Neumann KM184 and a bunch of other very good mics). I'd be surprised if you couldn't get a good map out of a mic like that.

[midwinter]

Speaking of...

I am having problems cutting and pasting wavemaps. I have followed the instructions in the manual, but the map doesn't seem to be pasted. Has anyone cut and pasted successfully?

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by midwinter

I may take some time this week to see if I can get a sound I like with an SM57.

I say this because when I did a mic shootout a while back, I thought the 57 sounded pretty good (this was against a Neumann KM184 and a bunch of other very good mics). I'd be surprised if you couldn't get a good map out of a mic like that.

I had better luck this afternoon with that little Oktava mic and the Baggs Element. In fact, I'm really happy with what I'm hearing right now.

I'm playing quietly and listening at a low volume through a tiny speaker (kids are in bed) but I'm finding it tough to differentiate between what I'm hearing from the speaker and what I'm hearing acoustically from the guitar.

And I think I now like the Dexterized Baggs Element better than the Non-Dexterized Trance. Which I guess is good. Not sure what I do with the Trance guitar if I keep using the ToneDexter.

Has anyone found a little soft case or padded bag to protect the ToneDexter while traveling?

Matt

[midwinter]

Great to hear that! I found that when training I had to crank my little speaker because I often couldn't distinguish the TD and the guitar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[buzzardwhiskey]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

Has anyone found a little soft case or padded bag to protect the ToneDexter while traveling?

Matt

I'm using a Pedaltrain Metro 16 http://www.pedaltrain.com/metro-16 that has a nice soft case to hold my ToneDexter and DigiTech RP360 combination.

[midwinter]

And I'm using a Pedaltrain Metro 20 (only bc I'm adding an ABC switcher). Perfect size.

[fiddle fever]

Originally Posted by buzzardwhiskey

I'm using a Pedaltrain Metro 16 http://www.pedaltrain.com/metro-16 that has a nice soft case to hold my ToneDexter and DigiTech RP360 combination.

Buzzardwhiskey, how's the DigiTech RP360 with Tonedexter?

[buzzardwhiskey]

Originally Posted by fiddle fever

Buzzardwhiskey, how's the DigiTech RP360 with Tonedexter?

I'll know for sure in two weeks (a very loud and crowded outdoor gig and a medium loud indoor bar gig), but auditioning in my studio it kicks butt. The half dozen dozen Lexicon reverbs alone are worth the cost of the unit, then add in parametric EQ, several compressor models, several choruses, delays and I don't know what all else...

Plus it's so easy to configure that I haven't read the manual, and it's very quiet.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by fiddle fever

So, I borrowed a Shure SM81 to create some new wavemaps and wow what a big difference on my tone. So far I've used a SM57, AKG C1000s and a SM81. Last week I gigged with my TD with wavemaps created by the AKG, but now comparing them to my new SM81 tracks...it's way better. The AKG's wavemaps have an EQ mid-range tone. I should note that I was super new to the TD and trained a mic quickly and took it off to a gig...not the best idea. Now what I'm doing is training using a certain mic placement and at the end of the training (when you can hear raw mic sound) I'm moving the mic around and retraining using better mic placement. I've used the SM81 with my banjo, fiddle and guitar with really nice results. What's nice is that different mic placement on different instruments takes care of EQing, which means less work for me at a gig!

From what I've gathered through research and anecdotal comments over the years, the Shure SM81 is the best small condenser mic available for acoustic-guitar and string-instrument recording at its price-point of $349 MAP. This is likely why you see it in James May's ToneDexter videos and why it's also used on many TV shows that feature acoustic music, and this compelled me to order a Shure SM81 right after ordering my ToneDexter.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I had better luck this afternoon with that little Oktava mic and the Baggs Element. In fact, I'm really happy with what I'm hearing right now.

I'm playing quietly and listening at a low volume through a tiny speaker (kids are in bed) but I'm finding it tough to differentiate between what I'm hearing from the speaker and what I'm hearing acoustically from the guitar.

And I think I now like the Dexterized Baggs Element better than the Non-Dexterized Trance. Which I guess is good. Not sure what I do with the Trance guitar if I keep using the ToneDexter.

Has anyone found a little soft case or padded bag to protect the ToneDexter while traveling?

Matt

Shoreline or some other dealer might still have some of those DTAR Mama Bear cases. I'm still using mine, though Mama Bear is long gone.

I'm glad to hear that the rented condenser mic has worked well for your ToneDexter training.

[Puerto Player]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Shoreline or some other dealer might still have some of those DTAR Mama Bear cases. I'm still using mine, though Mama Bear is long gone.

I'm glad to hear that the rented condenser mic has worked well for your ToneDexter training.

I still have my Mama Bear. I've bought almost every new product out there for modeling acoustic tone, and I'm still impressed with the Mama Bear. I haven't tried a ToneDexter yet, but probably will.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Puerto Player

I still have my Mama Bear. I've bought almost every new product out there for modeling acoustic tone, and I'm still impressed with the Mama Bear. I haven't tried a ToneDexter yet, but probably will.

I didn't mean to imply that Mama Bear doesn't work. It worked well with my Baggs Hex pickup and other pickups which provide a good modeling "platform" by being rather dry and string-oriented. I eventually sold Mama Bear because it worked poorly with my favorite undersaddle pickup, the PUTW I/O UST, and because the Fishman Aura Spectrum seemed to work as well or better with other undersaddle pickups.

I should add that the PUTW I/O UST picks up a lot more top resonance than most USTs. I presume that's why it worked poorly with both Mama Bear and Aura.

[LookerBob]

Ok, I borrowed an Audio-Technica 4051a and did some training sessions with it.

For comparison is my original comparison of the Lyric vs the K&K w/ Tonedextuer using an AKG 414 XL II:


And the 4051:



Position 1: At the 12th about 12" out, straight at fretboard.
Position 2: About 12" above the soundhole, pointing just above the upper bout.
Position 3: About 6" below the soundhole, about 8 inches out, pointing at my knee.

[open-road-matt]

So I just spent over an hour with the ToneDexter. My mission was to try everything I could to get a good sound with my Trance Audio Amulet M guitar.

I tried the SM57 and I tried the Oktava in 3 or 4 different positions.

I'm a bit torn. The sound I'm getting is nice at low volumes but when I turn it up a bit, while it has more depth and dimensionality than just the straight Amulet, that dimensionality causes trouble.

Certain notes/frequencies will be a bit too boomy, etc. The overall sound is a bit too "mic-like" if that makes any sense. (Going back to my times fooling around with the Fishman Aura, I would reaching for the blend knob to bring more pickup into the equation.)

I'm intentionally turning up my PA a bit too loud for the room I'm in but I do that to see what might happen in a venue.

When I go back to the straight Amulet at the same volume, I lose some of that dimensionality but all the troubles go away too.

I'm not sure what else to try.

Matt