Luthiers: Fret first or later?

[Steven Bollman]

I've seen competing approaches to the sequence if events. Is there a better approach. I know best is usually arguable.

So far I've got my neck glued up, roughly shaped, truss rod ready to glue in with wood filler strip to go on top of it, fret slots cut and FB tapered.

The question is: do I glue on the FB THEN radius it? Radius it first, fret it then glue it on the neck? I need guidance, please!!! Thx!

[Howard Klepper]

I would glue, radius, and then fret. I have done other sequences, but I think this is the least problematic. The issues that arise have to do with the board/neck warping (lengthwise) from the gluing process, and they are best dealt with by gluing before the other processes so you can straighten things out while shaping the board. Some wait to fret until the neck is on the body, since that is another point at which the board surface can change shape (at the body junction).

What I don't understand is why you rough shaped the neck before getting the board on it. That makes gluing the board harder. Who advises that?

[arie]

Originally Posted by Steven Bollman

I've seen competing approaches to the sequence if events. Is there a better approach. I know best is usually arguable.

So far I've got my neck glued up, roughly shaped, truss rod ready to glue in with wood filler strip to go on top of it, fret slots cut and FB tapered.

The question is: do I glue on the FB THEN radius it? Radius it first, fret it then glue it on the neck? I need guidance, please!!! Thx!

you can go both ways and you will find differing opinions as to how to go about it on all the forums you post on. in the end the best way is the one that works for you.

for me, i complete fretboards off the neck. i have an arbor press and conformal cauls that allow me to press in frets with a high level consistency, pressure, and accuracy. i also have a fret wire bender that pre-shapes the wire in coil or strip form to match any radius i want. the key that makes all this work for me is the fact that i use dowel pins made from 3/32" fretboard marker dot material to locate the fretboard to the neck as well as my fret slot templates. my fret slot templates have drill bushings in place to put the dowel pin holes in the fret board as well as the neck, and dowel pins to locate off the truss rod slot. everything about my necks center around the truss rod slot and those two dowels.

[Steven Bollman]

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

I would glue, radius, and then fret. Some wait to fret until the neck is on the body; I don't.

What I don't understand is why you rough shaped the neck before getting the board on it. That makes gluing the board harder. Who advises that?

Haha. Well, My advisory board consists of some sage luthiers like yourself and then some rogue elements like myself who is stumbling in the dark with choosing one of too many options. I'm learning. I hope I'm not building in any horrid miscalculations. I have been maintaining a centerline on the fingerboard and the neck since their earlier square dimensions. My appreciation for the breadth of knowledge required to build a guitar grows by the day.

[Steven Bollman]

Originally Posted by arie

you can go both ways and you will find differing opinions as to how to go about it on all the forums you post on. in the end the best way is the one that works for you.

for me, i complete fretboards off the neck. i have an arbor press and conformal cauls that allow me to press in frets with a high level consistency, pressure, and accuracy. i also have a fret wire bender that pre-shapes the wire in coil or strip form to match any radius i want. the key that makes all this work for me is the fact that i use dowel pins made from 3/32" fretboard marker dot material to locate the fretboard to the neck as well as my fret slot templates. my fret slot templates have drill bushings in place to put the dowel pin holes in the fret board as well as the neck, and dowel pins to locate off the truss rod slot. everything about my necks center around the truss rod slot and those two dowels.

Thanks, arid. I like your dot marker FB positioning solution. I have some 3/32" dot marker material. Maybe I'll give it a try.

[arie]

Originally Posted by Steven Bollman

Thanks, arid. I like your dot marker FB positioning solution. I have some 3/32" dot marker material. Maybe I'll give it a try.

it works. even if you go with a more traditional fretboard route, they certainly keep the fretboard from shifting off the neck shaft while gluing. one way to deal with fretboard warping is to use a non-waterbased glue.

[Steven Bollman]

Originally Posted by arie

it works. even if you go with a more traditional fretboard route, they certainly keep the fretboard from shifting off the neck shaft while gluing. one way to deal with fretboard warping is to use a non-waterbased glue.

I was planning on using hot hide glue. Is that a mistake?

[Steven Bollman]

So, now I notice another potential issue. Don't I want to dry fit the neck joint into the assembled soundbox (neck block) BEFORE I attach the fingerboard? Because I'm likely to have some fitting/fine tuning of the neck joint contact point with the side? Seems it would be more difficult with the fingerboard attached to the neck.

[arie]

Originally Posted by Steven Bollman

I was planning on using hot hide glue. Is that a mistake?

no, i don't think so. i've never used it myself but it's a very traditional glue favored by many.

[arie]

Originally Posted by Steven Bollman

So, now I notice another potential issue. Don't I want to dry fit the neck joint into the assembled soundbox (neck block) BEFORE I attach the fingerboard? Because I'm likely to have some fitting/fine tuning of the neck joint contact point with the side? Seems it would be more difficult with the fingerboard attached to the neck.

definitely yes. now is when you want to double check your neck angle as well.

[redir]

Glue, radius, attach to body and then fret. That's my method for the reasons Howard mentioned and that it's just easier to glue a flat board. I have not used HHG but from what I understand those with experience that do use a heat gun to warm up the parts first so as to give you a bit more set time.

[John Arnold]

Most of my necks have been shaped from a 3X4 block, so I leave the bandsawn neck a full 3" wide until the fingerboard and peghead veneer are glued on. That simplifies the centering of the truss rod and the fingerboard.
Unless the fingerboard is pre-radiused, I glue it on flat, then radius it. I also install the inlays at that point, since a neck with straight sides is easy to hold in a vise. After that is done, I bandsaw the neck on the sides, but leave it square on the back to facilitate the fretting. With the neck square on the back, I can either press the frets in in a vise, or hammer them. In either case, the square back makes fretting a breeze. I generally fret down to the 10th or 11th fret, then finish the rest after the neck is glued in place. That allows some leveling of the fingerboard at the body joint.
It is easier to pre-fit the neck heel before gluing the fingerboard on. But with my extensive experience doing neck resets, it is not that much of a difference. What does help is to pre-cut the neck heel with a slight back angle so that there is less hand work to do.
The last several guitars I have built were done with hot hide glue and a nonadjustable steel tee-bar. I glue the fingerboard on with a flat oak caul that is a little over 1" thick. Occasionally, I do get a little back-bowing due to the moisture in the glue, but it also occurred when I was using Titebond. If I use an adjustable rod, I have a caul with about 0.025" of curvature to counteract this tendency to back-bow.