CA finish questions.

[imwjl]

I'm considering more thinning the herd and a CA Cargo to replace our Little Martin and suit me as well as my kids.

Does the raw finish stand up to dings and abuse better than the colored wit gloss finish. I'm leaning toward raw, my daughter is in love with a blue one in stock.

I tried a Rainsong Shorty too but the Cargo somehow has more appeal as a travel and do it all player. Not a put down on the shorty but the Cargo had low action and upper reach that seemed like you could play it more like an electric.

Thanks for any input.

[Kindness]

There are two finishes with the Cargo: Raw and Rough. I have played both and I like both, the rough has a bit of a mellower sound. It's definitely my favorite small travel guitar. I just don't like how cramped it gets on the fretboard toward the soundhole.

As far as the set up on Rainsong guitars, I think most will agree they come from the factory set pretty high.

The new Rainsong Parlor is worth looking at and their Blue color is also stunning! And this is travel worthy...all reports indicate she is super mellow and a canon for the small size she is!

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by itself

There are two finishes with the Cargo: Raw and Rough. I have played both and I like both, the rough has a bit of a mellower sound. It's definitely my favorite small travel guitar. I just don't like how cramped it gets on the fretboard toward the soundhole.

As far as the set up on Rainsong guitars, I think most will agree they come from the factory set pretty high.

The new Rainsong Parlor is worth looking at and their Blue color is also stunning! And this is travel worthy...all reports indicate she is super mellow and a canon for the small size she is!

Maybe you're writing about pre-Peavey ownership. High gloss and satin RAW are how they describe the products and that's very much how they looked and felt at my local dealer.

Their satin model was sold so I only got to hear the shop manager strum the two finish types with me in front of the sound hole. They sounded pretty much the same so that difference in sound you describe seems a bit like like the silliness one hears and reads about Fender necks and body finish and all sorts of other guitar tone lore.

As for Rainsong, it looks like 14 fret parlor might be new and the electronics get demerit points for butt ugly obtrusive but I'd sure enjoy trying one to change my mind.

Lowest price is important. This purchase if it happens is about utility.

Thanks.

[AndyFrank]

Originally Posted by imwjl

Maybe you're writing about pre-Peavey ownership. High gloss and satin RAW are how they describe the products.

That is correct, Lisa must be referring to the discontinued RT, or Road Tough finish which was by far the toughest finish. Between the two options Pevey gives you the gloss would be much tougher. FYI the RAW has zero finish on top and automotive primer on the back which will show every mark and will look horrible in no time. I bought the RAW Cargo when you could get one for $750 but looking back now I should spent the extra $200 and got the RT finish.

I know you mentioned the importance of low price but if you can spend a little more I would highly recommend looking at the new Rainsong parlor as well. Cost about $300 to $400 more than the gloss Cargo but it blows the Cargo out of the water tonally and the standard short scale feels just like all my other guitars.

BTW, there is a used RT Cargo at LA Guitar Sales. Ted told me it was cherry picked from the first year batch by one of the guys who worked at the original CA. No warranty but it plays real nice.

[Kindness]

I can't talk you out of the butt ugly electronics on the Parlor! However, if I were to buy it, I would put the new Lyric in.

Thanks for the correction, yes, I had played Kramster's pre-Peavy Cargos.

I believe the extra dollars for the sound is absolutely worth it for the Rainsong Parlor. I am working with Reunion Blues to try to get them to make a nice slim profile gig bag, as I find the hardshell case cumbersome.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by itself

I believe the extra dollars for the sound is absolutely worth it for the Rainsong Parlor. I am working with Reunion Blues to try to get them to make a nice slim profile gig bag, as I find the hardshell case cumbersome.

I have tried a number of Rainsongs at my local dealer including the new 12 fret cutaway to know they are great. In my case I know spending less is the way to go. I've sold several guitars already and will always play my favored Santa Cruz when possible.

I'm sure there are better pickups too, but just no need for my intended use.

Add, if I make this purchase the guitar may be in the hands of 3 kids as much or more than in mine.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by AndyFrank

That is correct, Lisa must be referring to the discontinued RT, or Road Tough finish which was by far the toughest finish. Between the two options Pevey gives you the gloss would be much tougher. FYI the RAW has zero finish on top and automotive primer on the back which will show every mark and will look horrible in no time. I bought the RAW Cargo when you could get one for $750 but looking back now I should spent the extra $200 and got the RT finish.

I know you mentioned the importance of low price but if you can spend a little more I would highly recommend looking at the new Rainsong parlor as well. Cost about $300 to $400 more than the gloss Cargo but it blows the Cargo out of the water tonally and the standard short scale feels just like all my other guitars.

BTW, there is a used RT Cargo at LA Guitar Sales. Ted told me it was cherry picked from the first year batch by one of the guys who worked at the original CA. No warranty but it plays real nice.

Thank you for the heads up.

I'm torn on scale length when you mention that parlor because of my 4th - 6th grade kids. They definitely do better with the Little Martin and Mini Strat over any full-sized guitar.

Thanks again.

[dkoloff]

Take a peek at an Emerald x7 as well....saw one on Ebay that might go back up at a great price. I considered but just don't need another guitar at the moment.

[fjpoole]

Thanks for considering a Cargo for your next instrument. We are extremely proud of this guitar and think it's not only the finest travel guitar money can buy, but an outstanding musical instrument in its own right.

With regard to the finish. This could potentially end up being a novel, but I'll try to keep it short. The original CA road tough finish was developed to speed the manufacturing process. It had more to do with not having to sand the instrument as much prior to paint, than it did being durable, and believe me there is some merit to this thought process. When we (Peavey) took over manufacturing we decided to eliminate that finish temporarily and focus on the RAW and High Gloss. The primary reason was that those were the instruments that sounded best, and were in highest demand, not that the Road Tough finish wasn't a great guitar, we thought we could do better.

The RAW is a bit different now than it was at the original factory. The original raw had no finish on the top whatsoever, and had a satin back. It was difficult to manufacture, and hard to keep looking good. Recently we have been using a very fine top coat over the raw carbon on the RAW models..its barely detectible, it's there. The coating helps keep it looking nice and doesn't interfere with the tone (in any way we can detect). The irony is the RAW finish is actually harder to produce than the High Gloss, and the market thinks it should be less expensive...so we make it that way...go figure.

On to the High Gloss. We are using the finest automotive grade clear coat we can purchase. We have done numerous tests to improve the clear, and make certain it's gorgeous, durable, and yet thin enough to ensure great tone. This formula has taken years to develop, but we think our efforts have paid off. Sometime if you have the opportunity measure the gloss of a CA and compare it to other instruments, this can be done with a Gloss Meter (Sheen meter) or just by grabbing a ruler and seeing how far into the gloss you can read. I think you will be impressed.

With regard to Road Tough, we are experimenting with bringing back a version of that finish now. It's not going to cover the entire instrument, more than likely the back alone (paint is too thick for the top to sound good). I think we've found something that is actually more durable and smoother to the touch than the previous Road Tough. In any case this finish won't be available until probably next year.

One final note about playability. The single most difficult thing about producing a carbon fiber guitar is making it to the tolerances that will allow low action. It's easy to produce a guitar with high action, but making one with low action is an entirely different level of precision. We chose to make sure our guitars will play and ship with low action, that way we know the guitar is right. Once our customers get them the can raise it if they like. But a guitar with high action, may not be able to be setup properly with low action...be cautious of this when purchasing a guitar with high action.

The other thing you may have noticed about our guitars is the heelless neck joint. This is a patented process, allowing us to have a neck body joint that doesn't inhibit your ability to play up the neck. Its really something you miss when going back to a standard acoustic guitar with a traditional neck joint.

Hope this answers some of your questions. I appreciate you considering bringing a CA guitar into your home. We would love to be a small part of your family.


Fred Poole
General Manager
Product Development
Peavey Electronics
CA Guitars

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by fjpoole

Thanks for considering a Cargo for your next instrument. We are extremely proud of this guitar and think it's not only the finest travel guitar money can buy, but an outstanding musical instrument in its own right.

With regard to the finish. This could potentially end up being a novel, but I'll try to keep it short. The original CA road tough finish was developed to speed the manufacturing process. It had more to do with not having to sand the instrument as much prior to paint, than it did being durable, and believe me there is some merit to this thought process. When we (Peavey) took over manufacturing we decided to eliminate that finish temporarily and focus on the RAW and High Gloss. The primary reason was that those were the instruments that sounded best, and were in highest demand, not that the Road Tough finish wasn't a great guitar, we thought we could do better.

The RAW is a bit different now than it was at the original factory. The original raw had no finish on the top whatsoever, and had a satin back. It was difficult to manufacture, and hard to keep looking good. Recently we have been using a very fine top coat over the raw carbon on the RAW models..its barely detectible, it's there. The coating helps keep it looking nice and doesn't interfere with the tone (in any way we can detect). The irony is the RAW finish is actually harder to produce than the High Gloss, and the market thinks it should be less expensive...so we make it that way...go figure.

On to the High Gloss. We are using the finest automotive grade clear coat we can purchase. We have done numerous tests to improve the clear, and make certain it's gorgeous, durable, and yet thin enough to ensure great tone. This formula has taken years to develop, but we think our efforts have paid off. Sometime if you have the opportunity measure the gloss of a CA and compare it to other instruments, this can be done with a Gloss Meter (Sheen meter) or just by grabbing a ruler and seeing how far into the gloss you can read. I think you will be impressed.

With regard to Road Tough, we are experimenting with bringing back a version of that finish now. It's not going to cover the entire instrument, more than likely the back alone (paint is too thick for the top to sound good). I think we've found something that is actually more durable and smoother to the touch than the previous Road Tough. In any case this finish won't be available until probably next year.

One final note about playability. The single most difficult thing about producing a carbon fiber guitar is making it to the tolerances that will allow low action. It's easy to produce a guitar with high action, but making one with low action is an entirely different level of precision. We chose to make sure our guitars will play and ship with low action, that way we know the guitar is right. Once our customers get them the can raise it if they like. But a guitar with high action, may not be able to be setup properly with low action...be cautious of this when purchasing a guitar with high action.

The other thing you may have noticed about our guitars is the heelless neck joint. This is a patented process, allowing us to have a neck body joint that doesn't inhibit your ability to play up the neck. Its really something you miss when going back to a standard acoustic guitar with a traditional neck joint.

Hope this answers some of your questions. I appreciate you considering bringing a CA guitar into your home. We would love to be a small part of your family.


Fred Poole
General Manager
Product Development
Peavey Electronics
CA Guitars

Fred, I would need to look over the last hundred or so invoices from 20009/2010 to be certain but I'm pretty sure the RT finish outsold the RAW and gloss models combined, and it was also the favorite tonally. Yes, when you guys acquired the brand the RAW finish was in high demand but it had to do with the new low price which apparently was unsustainable then, and according to you might be unsustainable now.

If I were to be offered the choice of a free Cargo in RAW, RT, or gloss I would choose the RT without hesitation. It was an amazing finish, tailor made for a carbon guitar, especially the Cargo, it truly was "road tough". Hope you guys can bring it back in some form.

[tbeltrans]

All three of my Cargos have the RT finish. Given the same choice today, I would still pick RT finish over the other choices (and the original wine color). I think the important thing is having choices, because others will pick according to their tastes, which may be different from mine. That said, if you didn't bring back the RT finish, it would make the existing instruments with that finish, taht much ore valuable (hint, hint).

The biggest cmplaint about the RT finish was that if you brush against it with your fingers while playing, it gets amplified with the music. That is purely a matter of technique. Those of us who play in a more classically oriented fingerstyle hand positioning don't have that problem at all because we never touch te top of the instrument with our picking hand. I am not saying that other playing techniques are poor by comparison, but just not suited to the RT finish.

Tony

[AndyFrank]

Originally Posted by imwjl

Thank you for the heads up.

I'm torn on scale length when you mention that parlor because of my 4th - 6th grade kids. They definitely do better with the Little Martin and Mini Strat over any full-sized guitar.

Thanks again.

They may do better with a 22" scale now but in a few years they'll need a normal scale guitar with better intonation.

[CFW]

This topic of finishes interests me, as I come from a hobbyist background with carbon fiber making wings and fuselages for remote control gliders.

Our finishes result in mirror finishes using waxed Mylar and vacuum bagging techniques. These are not hollow structures, they've got foam cores. I'm sure the construction techniques are quite different... And my mind is spinning on attempting to use what I know to make attempts (key word there) at a guitar body.

[tbeltrans]

Regarding the short scale of the Cargo, I don't have a problem with it, though Ihave read coments in this forum go as far as saying anything above the third fret is useless. Every day I routinely play up to and just beyond the 12th fret. I treat the Cargo as a 12 fret guitar that has the ability to reach a bit further. The chords I use are those typically used for chord melody style. My hands and fingers are average size. I would think that a shorter scale would be welcome for aging players because the reach is easier.

Tony

[mchalebk]

"I have read comments in this forum go as far as saying anything above the third fret is useless."

This is most certainly not true (that the Cargo is useless above the third fret). However, my biggest complaint about the Cargo is the short scale. Last night, for instance, I took my Cargo to a practice for my duo (I can fit everything I need in the gig bag and it's just plain convenient). We do several songs where I capo on the 7th fret. It gets darn hard to cram my fingers in there that high on a guitar with a 22.75" scale. My left hand was actually starting to cramp up.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great travel guitar (though I still might someday consider selling it and getting an Emerald T8). It would never work as a regular performing guitar for me, though.

[Kindness]

Originally Posted by mchalebk

"I have read comments in this forum go as far as saying anything above the third fret is useless."

This is most certainly not true (that the Cargo is useless above the third fret). However, my biggest complaint about the Cargo is the short scale. Last night, for instance, I took my Cargo to a practice for my duo (I can fit everything I need in the gig bag and it's just plain convenient). We do several songs where I capo on the 7th fret. It gets darn hard to cram my fingers in there that high on a guitar with a 22.75" scale. My left hand was actually starting to cramp up.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great travel guitar (though I still might someday consider selling it and getting an Emerald T8). It would never work as a regular performing guitar for me, though.

I have to agree. The cramped fretboard as you get closer to the soundhole is cramped. Very cramped.