My ToneDexter experience so far

[James May]

Originally Posted by The Arborist

So, there I was this evening on YouTube listening and watching a beautifully recorded and very expensive acoustic guitar, being played into an expensive condenser mic, and this through my nice studio monitors and I thought..what a perfect acoustic sound.

All I have to do now is record some of this into logic and with correct levels, play this into tonedexter to train it ( I don't own a tonedexter....yet)

Not saying I would do this, but I could...

Not exactly. ToneDexter needs to hear both the mic and the pickup signals simultaneously in order to train.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by The Arborist

So, there I was this evening on YouTube listening and watching a beautifully recorded and very expensive acoustic guitar, being played into an expensive condenser mic, and this through my nice studio monitors and I thought..what a perfect acoustic sound.

All I have to do now is record some of this into logic and with correct levels, play this into tonedexter to train it ( I don't own a tonedexter....yet)

Not saying I would do this, but I could...

Besides the fact that this won't work, as James points out, so far my experience has been that "beautifully recorded" isn't the key. A beautiful guitar recording is probably in stereo, with reverb, and with mic positions that may not be optimal for ToneDexter. I've been getting good training results with mic placement that I would not use for a recording, and I've tried the positions where I get good recording sounds, and those have not always worked as well. You don't need a great recording, just a reasonable mic and follow James and company's tips on how to do the training. It's pretty easy, and should just work without having to master getting a great recording studio sound.

[varmonter]

Could someone explain the logic around
this 6th 4th and first string only training method.
this is single note training?

[The Arborist]

Ah of course..that makes sense thanks

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by varmonter

Could someone explain the logic around
this 6th 4th and first string only training method.
this is single note training?

This is for mixed-phase pickups like the Barbers Soloist or the Baggs LB6. Every other string of the Soloist is wired out of phase with its neighbor, which I believe is intended to reduce feedback risk. The LB6’s G and B strings are wired out of phase from the others, I believe.

If you were to play all of the strings when training it, the Tonedexter would receive frequencies in multiple phases and would be all like “wut” and your waveform would sound weird. Hence, if you want to train these pickups you need to play on strings that are all in the same phase to get a good waveform. Personally, I would worry you’d still have unavoidable bleed through on those crystals but Doug and others have made it work so maybe I’ll give it a try one day.

[ceciltguitar]

Thank you, Doug Young, for the tip on how to train the TD for the Barbera Soloist using strings 2, 4 & 6! I am expecting a guitar soon (a custom Emerald carbon fiber nylon string) that has the Soloist and I was wondering how to train it with the TD.

I wonder how the wave map created using strings 2,4 & 6 would compare to creating a wave map using strings 1, 3 & 5?

Best regards,
Tom

[SprintBob]

My TD has shipped, can’t wait!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by ceciltguitar

Thank you, Doug Young, for the tip on how to train the TD for the Barbera Soloist using strings 2, 4 & 6! I am expecting a guitar soon (a custom Emerald carbon fiber nylon string) that has the Soloist and I was wondering how to train it with the TD.

I wonder how the wave map created using strings 2,4 & 6 would compare to creating a wave map using strings 1, 3 & 5?

Best regards,
Tom

I think I've tried both, but I didn't compare directly. I'll try that. It's funny, I was just running thru the wavemaps I've made recently, and I think I'm getting the best sound out of the Barbara, and was thinking maybe I should try training the other pickups using just three strings :-)

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

This is for mixed-phase pickups like the Barbers Soloist or the Baggs LB6. Every other string of the Soloist is wired out of phase with its neighbor, which I believe is intended to reduce feedback risk. The LB6’s G and B strings are wired out of phase from the others, I believe.

If you were to play all of the strings when training it, the Tonedexter would receive frequencies in multiple phases and would be all like “wut” and your waveform would sound weird. Hence, if you want to train these pickups you need to play on strings that are all in the same phase to get a good waveform. Personally, I would worry you’d still have unavoidable bleed through on those crystals but Doug and others have made it work so maybe I’ll give it a try one day.

thanks i guess i missed that it was specific to the barbera.

[rb1591]

Originally Posted by varmonter

thanks i guess i missed that it was specific to the barbera.

On the LB6, train using the E A D E … skip the G and B strings. To me, it feels wacky and not very musical while training, but it works.

[varmonter]

i am using a kk pure mini. any strings i should avoid in training.,

[rb1591]

The K&K elements are all in phase with each other, so you are free to train with all strings. The Barbera Soloist and the Baggs LB6 are the only two pickups that have particular strings that are out of phase … at lease, I don't know of any others.

[Groberts]

How would a Baggs Anthem work? Need to use strings 6,4 & 2? I have another Guitar with Fishman Aura VT Enhance. Would that work well for training?

[rb1591]

Originally Posted by Groberts

How would a Baggs Anthem work? Need to use strings 6,4 & 2? I have another Guitar with Fishman Aura VT Enhance. Would that work well for training?

1) I don't have experience with Baggs Anthem, however my best guess would be to train and play with the microphone OFF. Use all strings.

As far as I know, the Baggs LB6 and the Barbera Soloist are the only pickups that need to be trained using only particular strings. All other pickups are trained as normal, that is: strumming, picking, or a combination on all strings. The LB6 and Soloists are the exceptions, not the rule.

2) Again, I have no experience with Fishman Aura VT enhance, however it would seem like using a ToneDexter with an Aura is not optimum. The Aura already processes the pickup system in a similar way to the TD.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by rb1591

1) I don't have experience with Baggs Anthem, however my best guess would be to train and play with the microphone OFF. Use all strings.

As far as I know, the Baggs LB6 and the Barbera Soloist are the only pickups that need to be trained using only particular strings. All other pickups are trained as normal, that is: strumming, picking, or a combination on all strings. The LB6 and Soloists are the exceptions, not the rule.

2) Again, I have no experience with Fishman Aura VT enhance, however it would seem like using a ToneDexter with an Aura is not optimum. The Aura already processes the pickup system in a similar way to the TD.

Thanks. I agree, i could turn off the Tru Mic as much as possible to train the TD with the Element UST (from the Anthem).

Cannot change the Aura image in the Fishman VT enhance. It is 'baked in'. But the guitar sounds better acoustically than it does amplified, so maybe it would still be better with the TD.