The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:13 PM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edinburgh, bonny Scotland
Posts: 5,197
Default Fret end bevels, are they really necessary ?

The more fret jobs I do, the more I think that the whole fret end bevelling thing is actually unnecessary.

The way I see it, the greater the amount of fret surface available, the better, and the less chance of the strings slipping off the end of the fret.

I am about to undertake a fret replacement on one of my guitars, and do it without any bevelling, but rounding off the ends with 400- 600 paper.

I will post pics of the finished results, along with observations of how it feels to play.

I fully anticipate replies saying , hey dude , I have been doing that for years !!!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:16 PM
bozz_2006 bozz_2006 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,703
Default

I like having the most fret real estate available as possible, for exactly the reason you mentioned. If I was a better player I wouldn't need it and would probably prefer a nicely beveled edge. But alas, I'm not!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:21 PM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 17,172
Default

Bevel them. It is not a nice feel without them.
__________________
Derek Coombs
Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs

"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:24 PM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edinburgh, bonny Scotland
Posts: 5,197
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Bevel them. It is not a nice feel without them.
I don't see why, Rick.

As long as the arrises are skilfully rounded, I fail to see why bevelling should be a sine qua non.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:25 PM
Cue Zephyr Cue Zephyr is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,148
Default

I need it - especially with the lower tunings I use! =D
I have no clue on fret work whatsoever though. I guess my tapping and slapping will have to do the work...
__________________
Musician and producer
Inspirations: Bill Monroe, Brad Paisley, Eric Church, John Mayer, Taylor Swift
YouTube Twitter Instagram
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:29 PM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 17,172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by murrmac123 View Post
I don't see why, Rick.

As long as the arrises are skilfully rounded, I fail to see why bevelling should be a sine qua non.
I tried it. You feel them. Try for example a F barre to A barre slide. The index finger is not happy.
__________________
Derek Coombs
Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs

"Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:29 PM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edinburgh, bonny Scotland
Posts: 5,197
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr View Post
I need it - especially with the lower tunings I use!
?????????????????????????

I would have thought that the less the fret bevel the better, especially with lowered tunings ...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:33 PM
Dan Carey Dan Carey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: RI
Posts: 3,084
Default

It's all a matter of what most of us are used to...beveled fret ends.

I've replaced a few frets on cheap guitars over the years and didn't have the tools for a proper bevel job, so I just softened the edges and polished the ends.
Worked just fine but felt "different" than any other guitar. Didn't really bother me but caused others to comment on the 'unevenness' of the fret ends.

I'd venture to say that, if I'd replaced every fret, they'd never have noticed anything but a 'different' feel.
__________________
Dan Carey (not Crary)

A couple of guitars
A Merida DG16 Classical Guitar
A couple of banjos
A Yueqin
A Mountain Dulcimer that I built
A Hammered Dulcimer that I'm currently building
And a fiddle that I built!

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:33 PM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edinburgh, bonny Scotland
Posts: 5,197
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
I tried it. You feel them. Try for example a F barre to A barre slide. The index finger is not happy.
Oooohhh kaaayyyyyy ....

Maybe our conceptions of "skilfully rounded" differ...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:55 PM
PWoolson PWoolson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,706
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
I tried it. You feel them. Try for example a F barre to A barre slide. The index finger is not happy.
Try it and see, but I'll bet that you find that you feel them as Rick said. Even if they aren't sharp, feeling the bump on a slide like this is pretty annoying.
Though the bevel doesn't have to be as extreme as most people make them. I think 45° is pretty common but that uses up a lot of real estate. I bevel mine at 7° and I think they feel very nice.
__________________
Paul Woolson
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-18-2010, 04:03 PM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edinburgh, bonny Scotland
Posts: 5,197
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWoolson View Post
Try it and see, but I'll bet that you find that you feel them as Rick said. Even if they aren't sharp, feeling the bump on a slide like this is pretty annoying.
Though the bevel doesn't have to be as extreme as most people make them. I think 45° is pretty common but that uses up a lot of real estate. I bevel mine at 7° and I think they feel very nice.
7° makes perfect sense, but I see no reason why 0° wouldn't work , and would give even more "real estate" on the fret.

It is almost impossible to explain verbally the geometry involved, but basically if you look down on the fret from above, each end would be a semicircle, and then, you have to soften the arris into what is actually a quadrant of a sphere .

Hey, I am just going to do it and post pics of the results ...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-18-2010, 04:14 PM
gitnoob gitnoob is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Emerald City
Posts: 4,327
Default

I prefer the feel of rounded fret ends. I think bevels are just a short cut.
__________________

gits: good and plenty
chops: snickers
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-18-2010, 04:24 PM
Voxguy Voxguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 41
Default

Bevel and smoothe - edges are distracting and cause poorer fret contact, not better. Lots of old vintage guitars that remained 100% stock have minimal beveling and too sharp edges - better guitars like Martins and Gibsons were beveled and smoothed. I picked up a stock 50's guitar the other day and the thin, unbeveled frets were almost painful to play - I recall putting it down and saying "yuck". The owner of the shop yelled from the back and said "I bet I know which guitar you just had in your hands".
__________________
Unsafe at any speed
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-18-2010, 04:28 PM
gitnoob gitnoob is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Emerald City
Posts: 4,327
Default

This is the fretwork on a Japanese factory guitar I used to own. I loved the feel! (They also make electrics, and it seems like the electric crowd is more picky about fret work.)

__________________

gits: good and plenty
chops: snickers
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-18-2010, 04:29 PM
arie arie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,728
Default

somogyi rounds his off and tilts the neck to the side about a degree too. more room on the treble side because of tilt and more room in general because of the full radii on the frets. for those players who drag their hand on the neck it can be a little bumpy and for others not so. also for those players who pull the treble E towards their feet instead of bending up it can help a little to have some more fret to work with.

there's no right or wrong it depends on what the client wants so give them a choice.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=