What my hand can't seem to do

[Earwitness]

I am playing a fingerstyle chord-melody style where I aim to fret the strings all cleanly. (I would say that I am a basic level intermediate.)

I practice quite a lot, and overall, I have improved drastically in the past year.

Still, there is a simple hand position that gave me problems before, and it has not improved--or not much. The easiest example to describe is on a D/F#, where I am only fretting the 6, 3 and 2 strings--in that posture, my middle and ring fingers do not want to come apart. They curl together, and it is hard to get them a fret apart and a string apart. I can move the knuckles apart, but the fingertips stay put. To make it clean, I have to be very perfect, and barely get the fingers on either side of the 2nd fret. Not convenient, especially, coming from certain other positions.

(Another example would be if I had the middle finger on A--G string at 2--the index on the C of the 2nd string--kind of D7ish, and then tried to add or hammer on the ring finger at the D note.)

So many other obstacles have melted away with practice, but this seems like it's a built in limit to my hand's flexibility. I run into this limitation fairly often. (Usually, can get it as a chord, but not always that great as a melody note.)

Is this common? Is there an approach likely to improve it?

[rick-slo]

Would need to see your hand position.
The middle finger does not need to be right behind the third fret - there is some leeway there. Make a regular D shape on the top three strings (index, ring, middle). See where your middle finger is. Lift the index and middle fingers over to the fifth and third strings without moving the ring finger.

With the other shape see how a pull off goes. Then try a pull off followed by a hammer on.

[stanron]

Originally Posted by Earwitness

The easiest example to describe is on a D/F#, where I am only fretting the 6, 3 and 2 strings--in that posture, my middle and ring fingers do not want to come apart. They curl together, and it is hard to get them a fret apart and a string apart. I can move the knuckles apart, but the fingertips stay put. To make it clean, I have to be very perfect, and barely get the fingers on either side of the 2nd fret. Not convenient, especially, coming from certain other positions.



Is this common? Is there an approach likely to improve it?

I find it easier to play this shape with my second and third fingers on the 6th and 3rd strings, (that is on the same fret) and my fourth finger on the 2nd string. It requires less twisting of the wrist. In the second example I would hammer on with my fourth finger. Always worth developing your fourth finger.

[Bingoccc]

I both exercise and stretch my fingers while I'm watching TV. Exercise like this isn't old school but I've really improved some things by doing so. My pinky hammer on is much better. I was once watching an old black and white film of an orchestra and the guitar player was playing a blues shuffle up the neck rather than across. I tried it and it was impossible. Now I can do it. I'm getting to the point I can hit the G and D chop chords on mandolin on the fly.

[ameetnsharma]

Say you keep that same D/F# chord... shift your hand higher up the neck... keeping that same chord shape...

How high up on the neck do you feel perfectly comfortable fretting the middle and ring finger accurately?

From what you said... I'd do an exercise where you fret the 6th and 3rd strings... then fret the 2nd string (with the ring finger) and lift it off... alternating between fretting and lifting it off... placing the ring finger accurately...

Start this exercise high up on the neck where you have no problems... slowly go down the neck... just go as far down the neck as you can.... then maybe the next day try again... see if you can go further down the neck... etc...

Don't play with any pain... stop if you feel pain... don't go too far down the neck if it's painful... slow and steady...

Maybe also switch the exercise to where you fret the 6th and 2nd strings... (index and ring fingers)... the fret the 3rd string (with the middle finger) and lift... then fret again and alternate...

[Earwitness]

Originally Posted by stanron

I find it easier to play this shape with my second and third fingers on the 6th and 3rd strings, (that is on the same fret) and my fourth finger on the 2nd string. It requires less twisting of the wrist. In the second example I would hammer on with my fourth finger. Always worth developing your fourth finger.

Okay. I have been working on my pinky quite a lot, and I'll just add that in. So, do you use those fingerings because the fingering I am talking about is awkward for you as well? If not for some invisible limitation inside the hand, the most logical finger for the D is the ring finger.

[Earwitness]

Originally Posted by ameetnsharma

Say you keep that same D/F# chord... shift your hand higher up the neck... keeping that same chord shape...

How high up on the neck do you feel perfectly comfortable fretting the middle and ring finger accurately?

From what you said... I'd do an exercise where you fret the 6th and 3rd strings... then fret the 2nd string (with the ring finger) and lift it off... alternating between fretting and lifting it off... placing the ring finger accurately...

Start this exercise high up on the neck where you have no problems... slowly go down the neck... just go as far down the neck as you can.... then maybe the next day try again... see if you can go further down the neck... etc...

Don't play with any pain... stop if you feel pain... don't go too far down the neck if it's painful... slow and steady...

Maybe also switch the exercise to where you fret the 6th and 2nd strings... (index and ring fingers)... the fret the 3rd string (with the middle finger) and lift... then fret again and alternate...

Good idea. Funny, as one of my homemade practices, I made up a song progression where it begins with that shape on the 7th fret--where I can do the shape with some wrist twist--and then drops to the 2nd fret and then to a C. Once I start in that shape up the neck, it is of course a lot easier to drop it down.

When I try the hammer on of the ring finger as you suggest, it gets stressful at about the 3rd fret. Good reminder not to allow pain, because my impatience wants to just yank my fingers apart to teach them a lesson!

[Earwitness]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Would need to see your hand position.
The middle finger does not need to be right behind the third fret - there is some leeway there. Make a regular D shape on the top three strings (index, ring, middle). See where your middle finger is. Lift the index and middle fingers over to the fifth and third strings without moving the ring finger.

With the other shape see how a pull off goes. Then try a pull off followed by a hammer on.

Tried to post a picture, but photobucket wouldn't take my photobooth shot. I'll try again.

Moving the index anywhere off the D shape is no problem, but the middle finger is greedy when I move it! That's a good practice and I'll try it. Requires a hand shift of course.

I'll also work on the hammer-ons and pull-offs as you suggest with the ring finger (and may incorporate the above idea of working up the fretboard). Once I've actually fretted the notes (and the hand position is established), my ring finger can do that pull-off and hammer-on, at least a little! Landing in position is the tricky part, but the practice you suggest has to be good for that. Thanks.

[Earwitness]

Sorry so many posts in a row... but one my questions was whether this is just a tricky thing for most people learning these shapes or whether this was just a quirky difficulty of my own hand.

[ameetnsharma]

Originally Posted by Earwitness

Sorry so many posts in a row... but one my questions was whether this is just a tricky thing for most people learning these shapes or whether this was just a quirky difficulty of my own hand.

I suspect it is hard for a good portion of people...

I always thought it was interesting how so many people (Leonard Nimoy himself included) found doing the Spock Vulcan sign difficult. I always found it easy... I suspect it is the same issue, getting that separation between the middle and ring fingers.

[stanron]

Originally Posted by Earwitness

Okay. I have been working on my pinky quite a lot, and I'll just add that in. So, do you use those fingerings because the fingering I am talking about is awkward for you as well? If not for some invisible limitation inside the hand, the most logical finger for the D is the ring finger.

I find the fingering I described more comfortable and also with that shape you can swap the little finger on the second string for the first finger at the first fret to get a D7/F# and it is melodically useful to use with the open B and E strings as well.

[rick-slo]

If you are just groping around for the best fingering, well it depends. For the first one I would often use a five string barre if it fits the situation.

However for below to play legato I would use:



-2(m)------0----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------3(a)-------------0-----------2(i)------------

-2(i)-------2(i)----------2(i)-------------0-----------2(i)------------

-0------------------------------------------------------2(i)------------

------------4(p)---------------------------------------0---------------

--------------------------2(m)-----------3(p)------------------------

[clintj]

One thing that's not totally clear to me is whether you trying to finger the sixth string with your finger or thumb. I usually pick up that low F# with my thumb which makes the D chord no harder than normal.

[Earwitness]

Originally Posted by clintj

One thing that's not totally clear to me is whether you trying to finger the sixth string with your finger or thumb. I usually pick up that low F# with my thumb which makes the D chord no harder than normal.

With my index finger (unless I adopt the suggestion above to use the middle). With my guitar that has the thinner neck, I CAN play the F# with the thumb, but it's not my habit, and it seems to take just as much wrist change the other way to do it, and doesn't have the same tone or agility as using a finger--at least not at this point.

I can just add an F# to a basic D chord with the thumb if all I am doing is a basic strum. So, maybe that's a direction I could develop. Thanks.

Actually, just fooling around with it for a minute, I think I could get to using the thumb in that application. But I still have the same problem on other shapes. For instance, I like the chord that is B on 5, D on 4, A on 3, D on 2 (ie, the same as the D/F# but moving the bass note up to B), and there's no way my thumb gets to the 5th string. I have a Guild, but I'm no Richie Havens!

[Earwitness]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

If you are just groping around for the best fingering, well it depends. For the first one I would often use a five string barre if it fits the situation.

However for below to play legato I would use:



-2(m)------0----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------3(a)-------------0-----------2(i)------------

-2(i)-------2(i)----------2(i)-------------0-----------2(i)------------

-0------------------------------------------------------2(i)------------

------------4(p)---------------------------------------0---------------

--------------------------2(m)-----------3(p)------------------------

Okay. Interesting. You cross that m finger way over. If you will trade me a 3(p) for that 3(a) I may can do that. I also more naturally pick up that G with the ring finger. Thanks.

Since I'm sitting here waiting on an AC repairman at the house, I am able to try all these ideas for as long as I want. My left hand is going...???