Dave Matthews Live Sound

Eastmeadow Mike · #1 09-12-2006, 01:51 AM

On another thread (Eq and UST), I think Gary brought up Dave Matthews Live Sound.

Without getting into if people hate him or not, why do you think he runs such a bare bones set up?

I have seen him many, many times, so I do know the sound quite well.

Do you think it is purely the fact that he has to play very loud? I know when he is acoustic, solo or with Reynolds, he is also just plugged in to a Matrix system.

Can anyone shed light on his set up, and why he has not gone for a better sound?

And, like I have said before...the UST sound, in my opinion, has become something of its own. Truth be told, only us players are the ones that agonize over sound. I mean, 150,000 people in Central Park - not one complained that Dave's guitar was QUACKY.

CitizenAudio · #2 09-12-2006, 01:58 AM

Seems like a simple guy to me. He plays mostly acoustic and he loves the acoustic sound. He doesn't bother with effects but I am sure he has a very talented soundman that also prefers simplicity.

preston · #3 09-12-2006, 02:58 AM

Well, an unsatisfying answer for most of the folks who would hang out here is, he doesn't know or care enough about the tone of the guitar because that's totally secondary to "the song", at least in his mind. At least, that would be my guess. And maybe he's gotten so used to hearing it that way it sounds OK to him . . .

CitizenAudio · #4 09-12-2006, 03:37 AM

I mean, he plays Martins and Taylors which are great guitars but you'll never see him with a Ryan, Traugott, Wingert, Olson or am I wrong? I havn't been a fan of his new stuff and pretty much enjoy his first 4 albums exclusively.

Guyute · #5 09-12-2006, 03:53 AM

I don't know about the live setup (yeah, it's Fishman Matrix into Countryman DI), but I assume the stuff is all tweaked at the soundboard. Dave tends to not fiddle with his equiptment when he's onstage (at least not like other people I've seen live).

But I do know that for the Live at Luther College album, they miked the guitars for the recording and ran the direct to FOH. My guess is that he's not playing a lot of boutique guitars because for concerts, he's got pretty much the same sound no matter what guitar he uses.

On 9/8, I was pretty surprised to see him play 5 different guitars over the course of the show. There was the ubiquitous 914c, another 914c with florentine cutaway for drop-d or lowered tunings, the W65 for several songs, the electric baritone and of course, this new Griffin soprano 12 string that he's been pulling out for the new songs.

My best guess is that Preston is right. I'm sure Dave cares how he sounds, but he's not a stickler because he knows that most people don't really care about his guitar sound (it's pretty buried in the mix with the full band anyway). Most of his crowd is there for the songs and not to pick apart the tonal quality of his guitar.

He's probably a lot pickier in the studio....

Rick Turner · #6 09-12-2006, 04:11 AM

Never seen him live, but the live recorded sound really sucks. He must not care about his audience very much. If you want a definition of quack, just listen to Dave Matthews. It's an insult.

Guyute · #7 09-12-2006, 05:13 AM

Rick, that's pretty harsh, if you ask me.

I'd wager you can't find an established artist who doesn't care about their audience. You're looking at a pretty narrow aspect of the whole sound. I'd wager you can't find a single person who goes to see DMB or Dave and Tim because his guitar sound is above average. They go because either they love the music/songs or they're there to party with their friends.

The truth is, the vast majority of people (and this includes a lot of musicians) don't critique the tone of guitars at a concert. I want my guitar to sound as natural as possible, but I can honestly say, I've listened to a lot of live recordings and I've never even bothered to listen to whether the guitar sounds natural or not. It's just not at the top of my list when listening to other people's music.

I understand that you're in the business of tone, so perhaps you're more critical than the average person. Not that I'm calling you a tone snob

sirflyguy2000 · #8 09-12-2006, 05:14 AM

It is certainly true that most never notice these things. But, as performers, I think we have an obligation to sound as good as we can within the means we have. Having said that, DM has NO reason not to sound great every night. Laziness and apathy may be the culprit. I can't believe some in-the-know guitar person hasn't said, "Dave, you need to shape up your live sound a lot. I think you can afford it..."

crowdedstr · #9 09-12-2006, 05:41 AM

my guess is he likes the quack... i mean, he used to play a chet atkins exclusively back in the early days... doesn't get much quackier than that

Guyute · #10 09-12-2006, 05:47 AM

That could be. It's certainly not because he's not been exposed to new ideas/technologies.

I also wonder if Fishman hasn't shown him the Aura....seems like they would have by now.

One has to wonder, at that level, how responsible is the artist vs. the sound engineer? BTW, I'd have to say that the show I saw on Friday was pretty dismal for sound (although MUCH better than SBC Park). I couldn't believe how bad the mix was. Of course, that's just my opinion....I don't like the sound to be as dominated by kick drum and bass. Of course, I don't blame the band for that....fire the soundman

rainsong · #11 09-12-2006, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guyute

I also wonder if Fishman hasn't shown him the Aura....seems like they would have by now.

D

I thought I had read that Fishman was in the process of recording his guitars for Aura sound images. Yeah, he has one of the quackiest sounds out there, but it is "his sound" and maybe he likes the percussive quack he is getting. Melissa Ethridge is another who's live sound is pretty quacky (ovation Adamas if I'm not mistaken), but seems to work well for her.
Sorry, I never got much into Dave MAtthews music or his live sound< although I will admit he is a talented musician. Just not my cup of tea.

crowdedstr · #12 09-12-2006, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guyute

One has to wonder, at that level, how responsible is the artist vs. the sound engineer? BTW, I'd have to say that the show I saw on Friday was pretty dismal for sound (although MUCH better than SBC Park). I couldn't believe how bad the mix was. Of course, that's just my opinion....I don't like the sound to be as dominated by kick drum and bass. Of course, I don't blame the band for that....fire the soundman

they just got new subs before the fenway shows and have been sticking with those since... stefan wasn't happy with the sound of the previous setup, and since then the mix has really been bass / kick drum heavy.

i haven't seen them since alpine (and haven't listened to tapes), but your experiences at shoreline this past weekend have been consistent with what others have been saying throughout the second half of this tour.

i say they should fire stefan...

guitaniac · #13 09-12-2006, 06:29 AM

Mike,

It was Rick who brought up the Dave Matthews guitar sound in another thread. I merely conceded his point.

Gary

Rick Turner · #14 09-12-2006, 06:30 AM

All you have to do is follow the career and sound of players like Martin Simpson, Laurence Juber, and Muriel Anderson to know that the artist can be responsible for good tone.

As for liking that sound...well I won't go much further here than saying I'd leave a concert that sounded like Dave Matthews' recorded live sound. That sound is simply un-musical to a tremendous degree. I did, in fact, once leave an Al DiMeola concert for just that reason...I couldn't stand the tone.

Yes, I'm a tone snob. That's why I design gear. If I had had the guitars and pickups I'm now designing and building back when I was a pro guitarist, I might still be a pro guitarist!

Jim Tozier · #15 09-12-2006, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastmeadow Mike

Without getting into if people hate him or not, why do you think he runs such a bare bones set up?

The simpler your setup is, the easier it is to reproduce the sound on a consistent basis.

I'm sure a good number of guitarists sacrifice tone (to a certain extent) in exchange for a setup that is fairly easy to manage.

Heck, my setup is pretty simple (dual source K&K pickups --> TRS cable --> Rane AP13 preamp for independent EQing, blending, etc.), and I still wish it was even easier.