Anyone gigged with a Lyric yet? Thoughts?

[cary]

I believe the baggage Dave speaks of is the internal battery and volume switch, etc.

I have to admit, after using the K&K for so long, I was turned off by the idea of putting a battery and volume switch in my guitar.

However, I strategically placed the battery pack where I couldn't see it, and pushed the volume switch back to where I can still adjust it, but don't have to look at it, and that has worked well for me.

I have basically forgotten they are there. Small price for the great sound I'm achieving.

[kydave]

Originally Posted by cary

I believe the baggage Dave speaks of is the internal battery and volume switch, etc.I have to admit, after using the K&K for so long, I was turned off by the idea of putting a battery and volume switch in my guitar.

However, I strategically placed the battery pack where I couldn't see it, and pushed the volume switch back to where I can still adjust it, but don't have to look at it, and that has worked well for me.

I have basically forgotten they are there. Small price for the great sound I'm achieving.

Persactly!

[Doubleneck]

I see this discussion exposing deep seated fears which each side must deal with.

personal I am checking into the K&K Cyanoacrylate phobia clinic.

The K&K people need to make peace with the energizer bunny.

Personally I would much rather deal with a cute bunny so you K&K people should feel pretty lucky. In the end we will all be better people because of this?

Steve

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by cary

I believe the baggage Dave speaks of is the internal battery and volume switch, etc.

Oh, of course. I also prefer things as minimal as possible, but on the plus side, the Lyric's about as non-invasive as you can get. Less chance of damage than putting in a mag, or supergluing things to the bridge plate. Yeah, you do have to have a battery, and if it was up to me, I'd have skipped the volume control thing. But it's so small, you don't even see it. All in all, way below the "baggage" of most pickups.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

I see this discussion exposing deep seated fears which each side must deal with.

personal I am checking into the K&K Cyanoacrylate phobia clinic.

The K&K people need to make peace with the energizer bunny.

Personally I would much rather deal with a cute bunny so you K&K people should feel pretty lucky. In the end we will all be better people because of this?

Steve

I certainly wouldn't have any negative pre-conceptions if anyone was to say (and for whatever reason) I don't want a battery in my guitar. It's kinda hard to object to that mindset and it's certainly legitimate.

But to chime in negatively in a conversation about a system that absolutely does have a battery, doesn't make much sense to me. If, hypothetically, one of my requirements for a system was it indeed "must" have a battery, then I surely wouldn't be compelled to jump in a K&K discussion and say "I'm here to knock the K&K cause "I" need a battery.

I'm a Dodger fan. I'm not (at least often) anxious to jump on the Angel forums and say "The Angels suck because I like the Dodgers"

[Aaron Smith]

I've been gigging the Lyric for a month or two. I really like it, but to Joseph's point it's not plug and play. The breakthrough for me was running through a graphic EQ, and it took a fair amount of experimentation.

I've been gigging the K&K PWM for a few years. I like it too. It took me just as much work to dial it in the way that I wanted, and I would say the resulting EQ strategy is just as radical as with the Lyric- maybe more.

With both systems fully dialed in, I give a slight nod to the Lyric. They're both good-sounding systems, and I think individual user preferences will dictate which one people like more. So far my experience with all pickups is that there's no free lunch- they all take a fair amount of tweaking to get dialed in properly.

[Doug Young]

I'm always surprised people need so much EQ on any pickup. I usually run mostly flat - if I need a lot of EQ, I figure something's wrong somewhere. What kind of sound system are you going thru that you need "radical" EQ?

[throbert]

Originally Posted by MaurysMusic

The problem I see with the Lyric (MY .02 and worth almost half as much) is that its high-midrange frequency funk requires access to a preamp with a sweepable midrange (add $200 or more to the situation now) and even then, some pleasing low-mids are often scooped away as well. In this scenario, we're at $400 or higher and I honestly feel that the K&K sounds a little better (not more natural but better) with moderate treble EQ at any/all generic mixing board/amp. Jump to $279 and the Trance Audio Amulet M eats all the other pickups for lunch, again with some EQ -but the necessary EQ is found on every mixer and amp. Also, I'll admit most players would have a tech install the Amulet, so you can add $100ish and realistically you're at $379... but still cheaper than a Lyric plus preamp.

If the Lyric's mids were beautiful when set flat, OR could be tamed by any generic midrange dial, we'd be almost unanimously crowing it champion of $200 pickups, no doubt in my mind.

These are my opinions from recording and playing lots of live gigs. This report is not any more valid or important than everyone else's findings at all ... they are just my opinions and I'm happy to see lots of people love the Lyric. I'm not surprised at all to see that its very popular. Its just not for me, and I've stated why.

I agree with this assessment of the Lyric. Even with the best EQ, it has a unpleasant sounding midrange that has nothing to do with what the instrument is supposed to sound like and that was the intent of the product.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by throbert

I agree with assessment of the Lyric. Even with the best EQ, it has a unpleasant sounding midrange that has nothing to do with what the instrument is supposed to sound like and that was the intent of the product.

I think the thing you have to keep in mind with something like the Lyric - sort of a cross between an SBT and a mic, is that results are going to vary a lot. These things are very sensitive to the guitar, and it may work in some cases, not in others. That tends to be the case with almost any SBT. I see the same thing with any of them, K&K, Dazzo, Trance, McIntyre, etc. In the 2 guitars I've tried the Lyric in, it sounds pretty much *exactly* like the guitar. Not better, not bigger-than-life, but for better or worse, the sound is just like the guitar I put it in. But that's just my two test cases, and I'm not surprised that other's experiences vary (and ignoring the whole question of whether "just like my guitar" is a good thing or not).

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I'm always surprised people need so much EQ on any pickup. I usually run mostly flat - if I need a lot of EQ, I figure something's wrong somewhere. What kind of sound system are you going thru that you need "radical" EQ?

I agree. There is of course the issue of our ears and how we interpret frequencies at varying degrees of dB levels. Consumers have always gravitated towards fairly dramatic smily faced eq curves especially at moderate volumes. I suspect that plays a role in the initial "yank the mids out" reaction. The truth is the mid-range frequencies for live acoustic guitar (particularly through a good P.A.) are a vital part of an acoustic guitar sound and far too often I hear gigging players with all highs and lows. Sorta like the old Takamine days in Nashville. That is to say acoustic guitars that serve as hi-hats. That smiley face tendency (to me) is missing fundamental frequencies needed for an acoustic to sound natural.

As I've said so many times, and it applies to every system I've used and not just the Lyric, the more I take the time to understand what it takes to "work" the system, the more I gravitate to a flat eq. My right hand touch and technique do far more than any eq when it comes to settling upon a great sound. I've got enough gigs under my belt (more than 50) with the Lyric and my Venue eq continues to gravitate flatter by the gig. Currently it's -3 or 4 at 500-700 which is room dependent. To correct some natural tendencies of feedback it's -3 at 200-ish which is specific to my current guitar. The rest is flat.

[PMcC]

I suppose we all want something different, after trying a few pickups that made my D28 sound more like electric guitars, or mud, that needed radically eq.

I love the lyric, it sounds like my D28 going straight into a PA, flat EQ.

and it seems more responsive to dynamic soft fingerpicking or strumming than any pickup I've used. Not that I've tried them all, but I'm done.

I assume we buy a guitar because we like ITS sound. IMO,..Lyric doesn't SOUND LIKE ANYTHING.

except the guitar...works for me.

[Aaron Smith]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I'm always surprised people need so much EQ on any pickup. I usually run mostly flat - if I need a lot of EQ, I figure something's wrong somewhere. What kind of sound system are you going thru that you need "radical" EQ?

Full PA, whether my own or installed. Mine is Mackie Onyx 1640i mixer - TCE M-350 - dbx 231 GEQ - QSC K10 powered speakers, Mackie 1801 powered sub. The "radical" part is usually to pull out some undamped resonance at stage volume. With my K&K, the "mid" knob on the K&K Pure Pre is literally all the way down. With the lyric, there's around an 8db cut from 160-200Hz, and bass boosted below 100Hz.

[Doubleneck]

Why is it when Doug speaks I listen?

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

That smiley face tendency (to me) is missing fundamental frequencies needed for an acoustic to sound natural.

I agree. The midrange is what tells the audience that you're playing notes and chords, and not just muting the strings with your fretting hand. So many players I see onstage cut the mids (electric and acoustic). They go to take a solo or play a scale, etc, and all you can hear is the attack. Yuck.

Sometimes a guitar can sound a little too boxy with too many of the wrong mids, but that can be very welcomed in a congested mix when it comes time to listen to that player's solo, etc.

[myersbw]

I worked & worked on the weak 4 bander on the Mackie CFX12 I'm using...frustrated it would take more, I'll employ a multi-band EQ next. No big deal. I expect to tailor anything I run through my system to make it "work as a whole". It's really what needs to be done anytime you deal with a band situation anyways. It's no surprise that the ideal EQ to give forth "your guitar only louder" is typically not going to work well with a band scenario. Whenever you have two or more instruments sharing similar audio regions you often have to drastically alter the EQ "per instrument" to make them stand apart and be heard. (Unlike the solo performance venue)

Figure it this way...if you're doing a gig when everyone is quiet and listening...like when I play in church...EQ is never ever an issue. Everything is heard so we can tweak all we want to tickle our own ears. But, change that venue to a coffeehouse where you may be just playing 'background music'...it's a whole different ballgame and now you have chit-chat to rise overtop of (or not as the venue owners may dictate).

Either way...isn't is great playing music?

BradM