Thanks to Doug Young...gonna get a AT 2020 mic..

Yamaha Man · #1 03-02-2015, 06:14 PM

In the recording section of the forum, I was looking around at mics, recommendations and demo's...and ran across this little gem by Doug Young...a simple AT 2020 recording into a Zoom recorder...sounds great to me.

https://soundcloud.com/doug-young/at2020-noodle

I was looking for an inexpensive mic to go along with my Lyric pickup in my Martin D-35 for general recording. I'm thinking a mic and the Lyric into the new Marshall AS50D will give me a very good recording. What I heard on Doug Young's above link sounds very good to me and I think it'll do the trick within budget....any suggestions or thoughts before I pull the trigger on the AT 2020 ??

Joseph Hanna · #2 03-02-2015, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Maniac

In the recording section of the forum, I was looking around at mics, recommendations and demo's...and ran across this little gem by Doug Young...a simple AT 2020 recording into a Zoom recorder...sounds great to me.

https://soundcloud.com/doug-young/at2020-noodle

I was looking for an inexpensive mic to go along with my Lyric pickup in my Martin D-35 for general recording. I'm thinking a mic and the Lyric into the new Marshall AS50D will give me a very good recording. What I heard on Doug Young's above link sounds very good to me and I think it'll do the trick within budget....any suggestions or thoughts before I pull the trigger on the AT 2020 ??

Be aware there is gonna be a bit of phasing tug-of-war with an external mic and the Lyric. For me the phasing rendered the mic and lyric combo simple unusable. I spent some time trying to correct the phase but nothing really worked and I tired of the experiment very quickly.

YMMV

Yamaha Man · #3 03-02-2015, 07:39 PM

Wouldn't that be true with any mic ?? I tried recording with the Lyric and a Marshal MXL V69 ME and didn't encounter any problems, in fact they sounded very good together. I'm thinking of adding the AT 2020 to replace the V69 as it has it's own power supply and is a bit of a pain to setup. I also don't like it's shock mount as it needs adjustment every time I use it. After listing to Doug's sample recording, I'm very impressed with the AT 2020 and think it'll do a nice job. I'm thinking it would be a nice mic to add to my collection and increase my options for recordings.

It's funny, on You Tube, I listened to a demo of about 15-20 mics ranging from the Shure 58 to the AKG 414 and a few very expensive ribbon mics beyond that....all recording the same guitar...the results were astounding...the differences in sound between the mics was very little at best. Meaning the lowly Shure 58 stands right up there with the best of them. It seems like there's lot's of hype in the microphone business.

Doug's demo of the AT 2020 sounded very nice...good enough for me.

pieterh · #4 03-03-2015, 02:36 AM

Assuming you record the separate sources on individual tracks the phase issue may not be a problem if you time shift the internal pickup slightly so it is delayed enough to be in phase with the onboard pickup - in Reaper you can "nudge" a track or section of a track in increments starting from 1 millisecond.

I did a recording last week using a borrowed Neumann u87 and my Taylor's ES. It sounded great and there were no obvious phase issues - I put this down to the fact that the two sources are picking up slightly different vibrations as well as a slight time shift from the mic. The combination had a nice stereo effect too - though to be fair I had the channels panned roughly 20% left and right and I didn't check how it sounded in mono (I will!).

Placement is of course vital, both for best sound and time aligning. But try the mic and then experiment with time aligning in the recording if it seems like there are phase difference issues.

J Patrick · #5 03-03-2015, 08:39 AM

...i have a 2020 and love it...i've owned better mics but the 2020 is a great mic for recording on "budget" systems...i use mine for use with garage band on my ipad using a focusrite itrack interface....simple and sturdy....

Joseph Hanna · #6 03-03-2015, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pieterh

Assuming you record the separate sources on individual tracks the phase issue may not be a problem if you time shift the internal pickup slightly so it is delayed enough to be in phase with the onboard pickup - in Reaper you can "nudge" a track or section of a track in increments starting from 1 millisecond.

I did a recording last week using a borrowed Neumann u87 and my Taylor's ES. It sounded great and there were no obvious phase issues - I put this down to the fact that the two sources are picking up slightly different vibrations as well as a slight time shift from the mic. The combination had a nice stereo effect too - though to be fair I had the channels panned roughly 20% left and right and I didn't check how it sounded in mono (I will!).

Placement is of course vital, both for best sound and time aligning. But try the mic and then experiment with time aligning in the recording if it seems like there are phase difference issues.

Yes but a pickup and a mic is a different beast than a mic and a mic

The age old adage about mic'ing a single source from 180 degree angles applies here. The same type of problems arose years ago when we realized there was some great tones coming out of the back of a Fender Deluxe and the issuing insanity of trying to mic the Deluxe from the front and the rear. The same Titanic battle when the fad became mic'ing a snare from the top and the bottom.

Of course there's no rule that says you can't mic whatever and whereever you want. By all means experiment. Unaligned phase however, and for me, is particularly difficult to listen to, others not so much.

YMMV

pieterh · #7 03-03-2015, 09:27 AM

Fair comments though the placement of the Lyric (ok yes it's a pressure zone mic but it is situated very close to its source) is not such that it is going to be 180 degrees out of phase with an external mic. And if it was it would be easy to rectify.

I am not disputing your experiences but I still think it's worth experimenting with the Lyric and the AT if the OP wants to - the difference in distance from the sound source with the two mics is such that phase issues should be minimal - and that is assuming the two mics would be picking up the same vibrations which they wouldn't be, not exactly.

janmulder · #8 03-03-2015, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Maniac

Wouldn't that be true with any mic ?? I tried recording with the Lyric and a Marshal MXL V69 ME and didn't encounter any problems, in fact they sounded very good together. I'm thinking of adding the AT 2020 to replace the V69 as it has it's own power supply and is a bit of a pain to setup. I also don't like it's shock mount as it needs adjustment every time I use it. After listing to Doug's sample recording, I'm very impressed with the AT 2020 and think it'll do a nice job. I'm thinking it would be a nice mic to add to my collection and increase my options for recordings.

It's funny, on You Tube, I listened to a demo of about 15-20 mics ranging from the Shure 58 to the AKG 414 and a few very expensive ribbon mics beyond that....all recording the same guitar...the results were astounding...the differences in sound between the mics was very little at best. Meaning the lowly Shure 58 stands right up there with the best of them. It seems like there's lot's of hype in the microphone business.

Doug's demo of the AT 2020 sounded very nice...good enough for me.

Sure, there is a lot of hype when it comes to mics (and their fans) but beware of making sound choices based on youtube videos. The quality of the audio is just not good enough usually.

Yamaha Man · #9 03-03-2015, 10:49 AM

For your enjoyment, here's a link to the You Tube Video demo'ing a bunch of different mics that I was talking about....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04vdECGx-8k

Yamaha Man · #10 03-03-2015, 11:15 AM

I'm also considering the Shure Beta 57A mic. I liked the sound of it in the above video....decisions decisions....

Doug Young · #11 03-03-2015, 02:38 PM

Glad the demo was helpful. One of the nice things about budget mics is that it's easier to afford 2, which to me always sounds better than 1 mic and a pickup. There are cases to be made for adding a pickup - the CandyRat guys, for example, often go for a punchier sound that seems to come from adding a pickup, and some of them use 1 mic + pickup. But I'd suggest that recording in stereo and then adding a mic as a mono "middle" might be a better way to go most of the time, if you absolutely want to use the pickup. But my suggestion would be to learn how to get a good stereo recording with 2 mics before trying to mess with recording pickups. It's just easier, and almost sure to sound good once you figure out mic placement, etc.

The area of mics is certainly an area where things get subjective, and perhaps exaggerated. Not unlike guitars :-) There are reasons for high end gear, but these days we're lucky that for home recording, You Tube, etc, the price point of "more than good enough" has gotten quite low.

SimplyLuo · #12 03-03-2015, 03:12 PM

Hey Doug, in your Zoom H6 shootout (https://soundcloud.com/doug-young/sets/zoom-h6-shootout), which take is the Zoom XY mic?

Yamaha Man · #13 03-03-2015, 03:55 PM

Doug, I've got a matched pair of MXL 603s mics for dual mic recording already which do a very fine job. I was looking for a single mic for playing into and recording from the new Marshall AS50D amp. I have a ton of floor pedals and a few mics and the Lyric and M1A to work with...using the Lyric lets me access the pedals and their various effects.....it's all about having various options.....Both the Shure Beta 57A and the AT 2020 have their benefits...not sure yet which one I'll get....will decide tomorrow.....your demo of the AT 2020 is a very strong selling point though...

Doug Young · #14 03-03-2015, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Maniac

Doug, I've got a matched pair of MXL 603s mics for dual mic recording already which do a very fine job. I was looking for a single mic for playing into and recording from the new Marshall AS50D amp. I have a ton of floor pedals and a few mics and the Lyric and M1A to work with...using the Lyric lets me access the pedals and their various effects.....it's all about having various options......

Ah, you're way out of any area I have experience with. I do frequently use a condensor mic for live performance, and if you have a good PA, quiet audience, and good acoustics, that's fantastic. My limited experience with mics and amps has been less successful, and I just skip the pedals - I want a pure acoustic sound. But in general, augmenting your live plugged in sound with a mic seems reasonable to me.

Jon, the answers to that Zoom shootout are here:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...2&postcount=14

So B is the internal Zoom XY mics.

sjino · #15 03-03-2015, 05:31 PM

The 2020 is a proven excellent budget mic for sure. AT used to sell a bundle with the 2020 and a second mic (can't remember which one) for not a lot more than the cost of the 2020 alone. When/if you're ready to buy you might want to investigate if this bundle is still available.

Cheers.