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  #1  
Old 08-25-2017, 01:02 AM
Victoria Victoria is offline
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Default Advice for electric newbie

My 16yo son has been teaching himself to play guitar on my acoustic and loving it (Yay! But also, GIVE ME MY GUITAR BACK)

He decided to buy an electric with his birthday money, and after quite a bit of research and a visit to a guitar shop to try a few out, he bought a used Ibanez online from a reputable UK retailer (would have liked to support the bricks and mortar shop, but they really didn't have anything suitable in his price range).

Anyway.. the guitar arrived yesterday and he's thrilled to bits with it, BUT it just won't stay in tune. In fact most of the time it's going sharp. I'm wondering whether this has anything to do with the tremolo bar, which is a Floyd Rose type, or the locking nuts (not sure what they're called) up at the nut, somehow pulling the strings sharp after tuning?

He's also had two strings break, but I suspect that might be as a result of all the inept fiddling around we've been doing.

I'm hoping to get it to a local tech in the next few days, but I'd be hugely grateful for any advice in the meantime. There's only so many times you can listen to the first eight bars of Purple Haze played out of tune on four strings

Last edited by Victoria; 08-25-2017 at 01:07 AM.
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Old 08-25-2017, 01:14 AM
1neeto 1neeto is offline
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Look online how to set up a Floyd Rose. They're tricky but once set they're very stable regardless of how bad you abuse that whammy bar. It's possible the strings it came with are old, the fact that it won't stay in tune and two broke usually means bad strings.
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Old 08-25-2017, 03:41 AM
Victoria Victoria is offline
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Great, thanks very much. We've got a new set of strings for it so we'll give them a try. The whole thing looks hideously complicated, I've gotta say it really makes me appreciate the simplicity of my acoustic!
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Old 08-25-2017, 05:22 AM
HesNot HesNot is offline
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Default Edge

I recently got a guitar with a Floyd tremolo - first trek guitar I've ever owned and they are very stable when setup but take patience to get right. I agree with the bad strings diagnosis. Also since it is an ibanez it likely is not a Floyd but is their own Edge tremolo which is similar but comes in several versions so adjustment will be slightly different. In some versions a bit easier actually as they have a counter spring and wheel adjustment for the springs on the back. There are plenty of tutorials for both online just make sure you're following the right one! Also check the clamping parts of the nut which can wear and get grooves which will impact their ability to lock the strings and may need to be replaced but they are cheap.

Mostly make sure you've got an hour or two to fiddle with it the first time it is an exercise in patience for sure but not that hard.
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:48 AM
Song Song is offline
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My advice is to send it back in exchange for a hardtail bridge.
Tremolo is an unnecessary accoutrement for beginners imo.
Good luck!
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:29 AM
HesNot HesNot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Song View Post
My advice is to send it back in exchange for a hardtail bridge.
Tremolo is an unnecessary accoutrement for beginners imo.
Good luck!
I can't argue with this sentiment since it took me 35 years before I owned a tremolo guitar - it can certainly be a distraction but there are plenty of good players I know who had various tremolo guitars early on and managed
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:53 AM
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Welcome to the AGF HesNot!
All we talk about is guitars and stuff...
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Old 08-25-2017, 12:10 PM
Victoria Victoria is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Song View Post
My advice is to send it back in exchange for a hardtail bridge.
Tremolo is an unnecessary accoutrement for beginners imo.
Good luck!
I must admit that if it was up to me that's exactly what would be happening, but my son loves the guitar and is determined to learn how to deal with the tremolo bar. I spoke to a tech today who said he can set it up for us, so we'll see how we get on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HesNot View Post
....it can certainly be a distraction but there are plenty of good players I know who had various tremolo guitars early on and managed
This is encouraging, thank you HesNot! In your experience, does this type of tremolo need adjustment after every string change?
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  #9  
Old 08-25-2017, 01:38 PM
HesNot HesNot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victoria View Post
I must admit that if it was up to me that's exactly what would be happening, but my son loves the guitar and is determined to learn how to deal with the tremolo bar. I spoke to a tech today who said he can set it up for us, so we'll see how we get on!



This is encouraging, thank you HesNot! In your experience, does this type of tremolo need adjustment after every string change?
Victoria = congrats to your son on his new guitar! Well the bad news is yes every string change may require a bit of tweaking even with the same brand/gauge strings as there can be minor variations even in the same string. Not always but I've had it happen. The good news is that it usually is only a very minor tweak. Changing string gauges, changing tuning (i.e. Going to Eb from E) or worse case both requires a good bit of fiddling... It's good to get a pro setup at the start but that gets expensive so it's worth learning how to adjust them on your own. Seriously it's not that hard really - the nature of the Edge and Floyd systems is the tremolo balances on a fulcrum point - the tension of the strings being offset by the tension in the springs in the back cavity so that the bridge is level with the body of the guitar. What is a nuisance is that you tune the guitar - then adjust the back springs which throws off the tuning - so you retune - readjust the back springs - each time getting closer until you get it tuned and level. It's not a difficult concept it's just time consuming and can get frustrating if you aren't settled in expecting it to take some time. There are some techniques that help - start with the low e, then the a and retune both the low e and a, and so forth (as the thicker strings exert more tension) which I do. Some will try to block the tremolo with a soft eraser or a stack of coins which also can help although I've had less good fortune using that approach. Sometimes just patience works as well... Almost forgot it helps to give the strings a good stretch even more than usual.

Once setup, however, they'll stay in tune almost indefinitely it seems!
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  #10  
Old 08-25-2017, 03:20 PM
TheChicagoTodd TheChicagoTodd is offline
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I think the Ibanez are a great deal for money. I just picked this one at a local guitar center, tag on it was for $199 US.

My also came with their standard tremolo, but I just keep the arm off and it stays in tune pretty good.

Good luck, it's probably just the strings or I'm sure can be fixed.

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago
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  #11  
Old 08-25-2017, 07:01 PM
1neeto 1neeto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HesNot View Post
I recently got a guitar with a Floyd tremolo - first trek guitar I've ever owned and they are very stable when setup but take patience to get right. I agree with the bad strings diagnosis. Also since it is an ibanez it likely is not a Floyd but is their own Edge tremolo which is similar but comes in several versions so adjustment will be slightly different. In some versions a bit easier actually as they have a counter spring and wheel adjustment for the springs on the back. There are plenty of tutorials for both online just make sure you're following the right one! Also check the clamping parts of the nut which can wear and get grooves which will impact their ability to lock the strings and may need to be replaced but they are cheap.



Mostly make sure you've got an hour or two to fiddle with it the first time it is an exercise in patience for sure but not that hard.


Oh yeah it takes at least an hour to set a double-locking tremolo bridge. I also wanna add that for easier setup, stick to 9 gauge strings since most "shred" guitars are usually set at the factory for 9's. Put anything thicker and now you have to deal with adding springs and/or tightening the claw screws.
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2017, 11:24 AM
Victoria Victoria is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HesNot View Post
Victoria = congrats to your son on his new guitar! Well the bad news is yes every string change may require a bit of tweaking even with the same brand/gauge strings as there can be minor variations even in the same string. Not always but I've had it happen. The good news is that it usually is only a very minor tweak. Changing string gauges, changing tuning (i.e. Going to Eb from E) or worse case both requires a good bit of fiddling... It's good to get a pro setup at the start but that gets expensive so it's worth learning how to adjust them on your own. Seriously it's not that hard really - the nature of the Edge and Floyd systems is the tremolo balances on a fulcrum point - the tension of the strings being offset by the tension in the springs in the back cavity so that the bridge is level with the body of the guitar. What is a nuisance is that you tune the guitar - then adjust the back springs which throws off the tuning - so you retune - readjust the back springs - each time getting closer until you get it tuned and level. It's not a difficult concept it's just time consuming and can get frustrating if you aren't settled in expecting it to take some time. There are some techniques that help - start with the low e, then the a and retune both the low e and a, and so forth (as the thicker strings exert more tension) which I do. Some will try to block the tremolo with a soft eraser or a stack of coins which also can help although I've had less good fortune using that approach. Sometimes just patience works as well... Almost forgot it helps to give the strings a good stretch even more than usual.

Once setup, however, they'll stay in tune almost indefinitely it seems!
Thanks HesNot! And thank you very much for the advice, that's brilliant. We took the guitar to the tech today, should be able to pick it up on tuesday afternoon. I have to say all that fiddling around sounds like a nightmare to me, but my son will probably quite enjoy tinkering with it once he gets used to how it works

Can't tell you what a relief it'll be when he's actually playing in tune!
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  #13  
Old 08-26-2017, 11:30 AM
Victoria Victoria is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChicagoTodd View Post
I think the Ibanez are a great deal for money. I just picked this one at a local guitar center, tag on it was for $199 US.

My also came with their standard tremolo, but I just keep the arm off and it stays in tune pretty good.

Good luck, it's probably just the strings or I'm sure can be fixed.

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago
Very nice! Ibanez do seem to be excellent value for money.

I suggested to my son that he might take the tremolo arm off, but apparently it's essential to his inner Jimi Hendrix
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  #14  
Old 08-26-2017, 11:31 AM
TheChicagoTodd TheChicagoTodd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victoria View Post
Very nice! Ibanez do seem to be excellent value for money.

I suggested to my son that he might take the tremolo arm off, but apparently it's essential to his inner Jimi Hendrix
Completely understood!
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  #15  
Old 08-26-2017, 11:40 AM
Victoria Victoria is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1neeto View Post
Oh yeah it takes at least an hour to set a double-locking tremolo bridge. I also wanna add that for easier setup, stick to 9 gauge strings since most "shred" guitars are usually set at the factory for 9's. Put anything thicker and now you have to deal with adding springs and/or tightening the claw screws.
Thanks 1neeto. It went to the tech today, he's going to restring it but I'm not sure what he'll put on it. Do you think it'll be ok in the future as long as we stick to whatever gauge he uses when he sets it up?
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