How do you write songs??

[aaronl]

OK so I have a chord structure that I think sounds good.
I have written poetry for most of my life.

I just can't seem to write a poem to fit into a song...

Are there any good online tips for things like this??

Anyone have any suggestions?

[Bern]

Perhaps, you're looking for something like THIS ?.

[mr. beaumont]

personally, I can't write that way....melody almost always has to come first for me...

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by aaronl

...Anyone have any suggestions?

Hi aaron...

I work at it, and tend to write way too complex.

These past few years, I collect snippets on my digital recorder (H2n currently) and then pull them up every few months and relisten to see if there is inspiration.

When something finally gels, I show it to my gigging partner & we give it a workout (jam).

Sometimes it's words without music, sometimes just a cool lick looking for lyrics or a song. I cannot force it, and am not compelled to.

Not sure that would work for anyone else.

[Bern]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Not sure that would work for anyone else.

You're probably right, Larry. Songwriting is such a personal thing as much as the process of doing it.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by aaronl

OK so I have a chord structure that I think sounds good.
I have written poetry for most of my life.

I just can't seem to write a poem to fit into a song...

What about vice versa? Make the song (chords) fit the poem?
If you have words you like, and they scan and rhyme well, you have what some would regard as the hardest part done. It will give you the structure of the song.
The words of a poem have a natural rhythm, so try and go with that: simplify it into a musical rhythm.

Remember a song is words and melody. So (seeing as you have the words) you need to find that melody.
You can find it by singing, or by trying to pick notes out of chords. Singing is better, even if you're not a great singer, because it will need to be sung eventually, and you need to make sure it feels good to sing, that the words sit right.
Try singing the first line, just to one chord. Try a few different chords, but only one at a time (to find a key that feels right for your voice).
You need to be able to sing notes that fit the chord.
Don't change the chord until the words or the tune demand it. Words and melody lead; chords follow along in support. Don't make the chords lead; they're really the least important part. A good song will sound good sung unaccompanied.

As general advice pick songs you like and study them closely. Look at how words and melody fit together; at how the chords fit the melody. Look for special effects, like unusual chord changes or key changes, and whether they enhance the meaning of the words (they should). Chords are like a suit of clothes; well tailored, they will make the person (melody+words) look his/her best. But you don't make the person fit the clothes!

[Gostwriter]

I would start by getting a book or two on songwriting, learning the basic song forms and techniques and then looking at some songs you already know and like and see how they are put together. Try adding your own words to a few popular tunes just to get the feel of it.

Then start looking for ideas on TV, in the news or just in the people you meet and the places you travel everyday. Often the ideas will come to you and sometimes in the middle of the night or when you have no pen and paper to write them down on. It is a good idea to carry a recorder and refer back to those lines and ideas as Larry said. I've written songs about the traffic I was sitting in or a couple of drunks I just met in a bar and stories I've seen on the news. Often it starts with one line that sticks in your head and then you can't stop writing.

After you get the hang of writing a few songs on your own and actually put chords and melody to the words record them and take a few to a local songwriting club and see what they think about them.

The Nashville Songwriters Association has regional workshops in most major metropolitan areas. There are also regional songwriters groups you can google. here are a few links to check out.

http://www.nashvillesongwriters.com/

http://dir.yahoo.com/entertainment/m...organizations/

[Hotspur]

Originally Posted by aaronl

Anyone have any suggestions?

Unfortunately, there are very few good books on songwriting. The only one I've read that's worth a **** is Pedler's "Songwriting Secrets of the Beatles" but it's fairly dense, and doesn't address what I think is the biggest challenge of songwriting:

How do you come up with a melody?

Because that's really want it's about.

I'm written songs chords-first and melody-first, but I will say this: it's very hard to write over a complex chord pattern. The best song I've written chords-first is a very simple D-Em7 pattern for most of it. When you start trying to write over complex chord patterns you're really limiting yourself melodically.

The best thing I can say is work on your ear. The better developed your ear is, the more you'll be able to think in pitches, which will allow you to THINK of melodies. WIth a poor ear, you really can't think of a melody because your brain can't really hold pitches accurately. Once you've developed your ear to the point where you can hear what a melody is doing relative to chord changes it'll help your writing a lot.

The next thing I would say is that, if you do write chords first, still prioritize the melody. That is to say, don't spend a lot of time trying to polish the chords, come up with a bridge section, etc, until you've come up with the melody.

And the most important part of the melody is the hook. Start there if you can. Since the rest of the melody is often designed to set up the hook, you can get sort of aimless without knowing what it is.

[SteveHung]

It will take some tweaking from writting poetry to writting song lyrics. First, you have to wrap your words around a melody line that you can hum. Second, there are time signatures and meters in music, so you have to wrap the number of syllables in each verse to each measure of music. The words also have to flow consistently, rappers are actually very conscious about this and listening to some good hip-hop MC's may help get you an idea of flow. Third, whereas writting poetry is like going in a straight line, from beginning to end, I feel that songwritting is more cyclical like a circle, because most songs have a verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-verse-chorus structure, so during the choruses, recurring themes and messages repeat themselves.

[Dru Edwards]

I always come up with some chords, then a melody on top of that (humming or singing nonsense words in the form of the melody). Then the words come. That has always worked for me. Others come up with words first and then put some music around it.

Try coming up with a melody to your chord structure. Perhaps you need to record it first and then try humming to see what melody comes out.

[stanron]

Originally Posted by aaronl

OK so I have a chord structure that I think sounds good.
I have written poetry for most of my life.

I just can't seem to write a poem to fit into a song...

Are there any good online tips for things like this??

Anyone have any suggestions?

It doesn't have to be a poem. It can help to have a melody or at least the hint of a melody in your mind. The melody can suggest a mood and the mood can be described in words. Sometimes that is enough. Simple can be best.

[Ian Martin]

Anyone I know who has enjoyed a relative level of success writing, recording, and touring have always told me that the words come first, then the melody/riffs come next - this is how they come up with chord progressions that seem so fluid but couldn't think of from the beginning

for me however, it doesn't work that way. I come up with little bits and pieces of music, and once I feel like I have enough I write some lyrics. I refine and edit as I go so that it sounds natural and not forced.

For some reason I have no inspiration to write (lyrics or poetry if you prefer) until I have a sound in my head

I think the most important aspect is to remember that the editing process can apply to both the lyrics and the music. regardless of the approach you take, I think you have to always be willing to budge on both components

[Gostwriter]

Some of the greatest popular songs of all time especially blues and rockabilly have only three chords in them - hence the I- IV- V chord progression i.e. C - F- G or E - A- B. Learn and understand the various song forms such as:

verse - chorus (AB)
verse - verse - bridge - verse (AABA)

Learn which styles fit your type of music or the song you are trying to write

If writing a song is your ultimate goal - Unless it's going to be an instrumental - I would try to start with the story you want to tell first. As you're putting your thoughts together, a tune or rhythm should start to fall into place. Again, look at popular songs and see how they are written. You can always change the chords around or the key; much easier then trying to come up with all new words and lines to fit the music in my opinion. A good lesson given at a songwriters circle was that every morning when you wake up - focus on one particular object like a rocking chair, an oak tree, the fresh fallen snow, a clock, the news paper, the TV set etc and start writing everything that comes to mind. Your imagination will sometimes do great things.

Also, I'm not sure if this will make sense to you but in my opinion; writing a great song is while it's the same basic process; it's different from writing a hit song. There are literally millions of great songs played everyday by local musicians (most will never go anywhere) even though they are excellent songs (more often then not they're much better then the big hits) however because of the rhythm, rhyme or beat or maybe just the artist who performs it, a certain song goes to the top of the charts. But the hit songs are the ones that make you money. If you want to write a hit song, start listening to the most popular songs and artists on the radio and figure out what it is that makes them sell. If you want to write a song that you and your audience can identify with start paying closer attention to the artists that write the music you listen to.

In the 1970's Anne Murray had great success with a long line of top ten hits that lasted for decades. She told a story at her concerts that one day a man came up to her and handed her a tape of songs that he had written and she went home and listened to them and they all clicked with her. He became her personal songwriter and the rest was history.

I would also suggest that as I said earlier you get a few books on songwriting and join a songwriters circle or group. Look up the library of congress and find out about the copyright process. You can usually send in a full CD with 20 or 25 songs and pay the same price as you would for one song. not sure if people still do that with computers as your song is sort of dated the first time you email it anywhere? If you get real serious at some point you would want to join BMI or ASCAP but probably not until someone is going to record your song.

When you get some real good songs down you may want to make a trip to Nashville and play your songs at the Bluebird Cafe. You can friend Barbara Cloyd on Facebook - she runs all the shows there and she always advertises songwriter workshops and play for the publishers nights where you can go there and play your songs for a group of publishers.

Also I've always been told to avoid song contests that ask you to pay a few up front.

[Antipodean Ed]

I find Gary Ewer's "Secrets of Songwriting" website has many useful tips (free). Have a look at http://secretsofsongwriting.com/ and good luck!