#31
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
Waterloo WL-S, K & K mini Waterloo WL-S Deluxe, K & K mini Iris OG, 12 fret, slot head, K & K mini Follow The Yellow Brick Road |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Yeah, job #1 is this. Really, stop viewing chords as "shapes" and start seeing them as "pools of notes." It's totally liberating. |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Honestly, this is what it is all about. It's so much more fun making your own music. There were some fingerings I haven't used before, so I need to practice. But I much prefer doing in the context of my own music. It feels good to be making up my own stuff. I think my problem was that I was too focused on 5 or 6 string chords. Probably because I've done a lot of travis picking songs which take advantage of those extra bass notes. Not to say you can't travis pick on just 4 strings, but the extra strings fill it out a bit more. In answer to a few other questions. I'm not particularly fond of blues or jazz. I prefer more contemporary fingerstyle. It's odd, because I never actually grew up liking fingerstyle music. I just happened to come across travis picking, gave it a go for fun, and fell in love with the fact I could play any two or 3 strings at once. I'm certainly not beholden to travis style though. |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
Right you are, Jeff! Forget bass lines and start opening up to three and sometimes four note chords. You also need to learn, (if you don't already know), where all the octaves are. This will also help you up and down the neck.
Socks, if you're interested in great finger style stuff check out Mark Goldenberg. He is a top session guy in LA and also has played live with many different artists including Jackson Browne. There's stuff all over youtube of his playing, as well with Eric Skye Then you'll start understanding the whole ringing of notes into other notes, don't get started down that road. You have to be able to hear what it can be to go there.
__________________
Dump The Bucket On It! |
#35
|
||||
|
||||
I do a little improvising, usually in E (see below for an example). I mainly stay in E, but I've begun to branch out and dabble in C as well now. I keep it simple, using mostly I IV and V with pentatonic runs mixed in.
__________________
Barry My SoundCloud page Avalon L-320C, Guild D-120, Martin D-16GT, McIlroy A20, Pellerin SJ CW Cordobas - C5, Fusion 12 Orchestra, C12, Stage Traditional Alvarez AP66SB, Seagull Folk Aria {Johann Logy}: Last edited by TBman; 02-20-2017 at 11:15 AM. |
#36
|
|||
|
|||
Quick question -
Can we source, study and implement reference guides on improvisation and still be thinking improvisation? If so, my definition must be archaic. I used to scratch build flying balsa wood R/C airplanes. I drew my own plans, cut out my own parts from those plans and then assembled the airplanes. From there I'd fit my radio gear and control surfaces, and install the engine, etc. I'd make all my own hinges and linkages and in the case of one particular airplane, designed and machined my own retractable landing gear. This was the old days when scratch building meant, like grandma's buttermilk biscuits, truly made from scratch. These days people in the hobby buy pre-cut kits of parts cut from plans they buy and assemble, and call it scratch building. Improvisation is truly a singular person's take on a piece of music that exhibits his own sense of melody utilizing the skills set he's developed and all without outside influence involved to effect the piece. With outside guidance and influence it's like taking a trip across country following your nose to blaze new trails with a map in the car. |
#37
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I tend to think of improvising in a way that is a lot like giving an extemporaneous speech, whether that's a formal speech, or just when someone strikes up a conversation with you or asks a question and you have to answer on the spot. Unless you have pre-rehearsed the exact words you use, then you will be "improvising" what you say. That doesn't mean you don't have an idea of the point you want to get across, it doesn't mean you haven't studied grammar in school. In fact, you will likely use words and even entire phrases you've used many times, but will be improvising the exact order in which you say them, the emotion and emphasis you place of various words, and so on, all in an effort to communicate an idea (which has probably also been previously formed). But that's just how I think of musical improvisation, and clearly there can be many definitions, since it's an art. But I think most improvisors who are interesting to listen to have a set of things they have studied and that they can draw on - improvisers often refer to having a "vocabulary", phrases they know how to apply and manipulate to get across what they want to "say" in their performance. Players who don't have a vocabulary tend to sound random, just as someone who hasn't learned the rules of grammar (formally or informally), and can be hard to listen to because they don't make much sense (to me, at least) BTW, thanks to an earlier poster for the link to the book on improvising for classical and fingerstyle. Seems to be back ordered, but I have it on order. It'll be interesting to see what it has to offer.
__________________
Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#38
|
||||
|
||||
This thread is an example of why I enjoy this forum, lots of great info here.
__________________
Doerr Trinity 12 Fret 00 (Lutz/Maple) Edwinson Zephyr 13 Fret 00 (Adi/Coco) Froggy Bottom H-12 (Adi/EIR) Kostal 12 Fret OMC (German Spruce/Koa) Rainsong APSE 12 Fret (Carbon Fiber) Taylor 812ce-N 12 fret (Sitka/EIR Nylon) |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
By the way, I fully agree with your assessment of improvising. You have to have a vocabulary to speak in every day conversation, or post in these forums. Music truly is a language and we use it to improvise in the same way as casual conversation. In fact, when playing in a musical ensemble in which the players are not playing strictly from sheet music, the performance is a conversation between the musicians. I am currently in that situation, and have been many times in the past. I never liked those strict musical situations in which every note played is dictated. Instead, give us a lead sheet (at most) and trust us to have the vocabulary to interpret it. Out of that comes the musical conversation between players. that is the situation I do best in, and fortunately, I seem to have no trouble finding those situations to participate in. Tony
__________________
“The guitar is a wonderful thing which is understood by few.” — Franz Schubert "Alexa, where's my stuff?" - Anxiously waiting... |
#40
|
|||
|
|||
Hooray for this thread! That is all : )
|
#41
|
|||
|
|||
Hi!
Just dropping in to say that his thread is still awesome : ) Seeya! |
#42
|
||||
|
||||
I just got my ordered copy. It's not quite what I expected, but looks quite good nevertheless. I read thru the first few sections last night, looking forward to the rest.
__________________
Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#43
|
|||
|
|||
I LOVE this: viewing chords as pools of notes. Now I just have to go fishing for the right notes to create the pools I want to play.
__________________
Carol "We are music fingered by the gods." ~ Mark Nepo |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
Ted Greene's "Modern Chord Progressions" is useful for improvising, as it provides suggestions and possibilities for voice leading, and chord forms that offer ways forward.
If you prefer video, Joe Pass did a great video called "Solo Jazz Guitar" some years ago where he shows a couple of ways to play through rhythm changes, and they open possibilities in terms of chord forms and voicings you might not have gotten on your own. I really like this.... Here's a taste (it's totally worth the cost) of what the video provides: Basic changes: Cmaj7: X3245X or X34343 A-7: 5X5555 (1st string hammered on to 7th fret to become an A-9) D-11: X57585 G13: 3X345X One variation, which moves it towards a dominant flavor E7#9: X7678X A13: 5X567X D7#9: X5456X G13: 3X345X Another variation, subbing an E-11 for the Cmaj7: E-11: X7778X A-9: 5X5557 D-11: X57585 G13: 3X345X Another: Cmaj7: X3243X A-9: X0200X D-9: XX0320 G7b9: 3X3100 Another: Cmaj7: X3243X A9#5: XX5667 # Changes to dominant D-11: X57585 G13: 3X345X Lists of different chords he subs in for the Cmajor: E-7: X7978X E7#9: X7678X E7#9: 0X678X Some subs for the A7 (e.g. dominant flavor): A13: XX5677 A+v9: XX5666 A13b9: XX5676 A13#9: XX5678 A7#5#9: XX5668 For the D-11, he subs in the following dominants sometimes: D9: X5455X D13: X54557 (note that this can also sub for the G dominant) Net-net, he walks you through how he constructs his lines using chords, and it's pretty amazing, especially when he discusses how he thinks about chords and what can reasonably sub in for them. |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Improvisation in music is really very similar. It's a combination of things we know consciously and subconsciously. We invent as we go, but always within very limited parameters, appropriate for the song or style we're playing in. We know what will sound "wrong", but we also know that a variety of things will sound "right", and we choose between any of those. E.g, you'd tune your guitar before you play, because it would sound wrong if you didn't. You take that for granted, just as you take it for granted that a plane needs wings (otherwise it's just something you throw ). Then, out of the 12 possible tuned notes, you select the ones contained in the tune you're playing over (as given by its chords and melody). You'll even make smaller selections from that 7-note selection, according to which chord you're on. Depending on genre and style, you might also bend notes, moving between pitches. And that too is governed by very tight rules (known by all blues players). What you won't do is just play all 12 notes at random in the hope that some will fit. Most probably will, at any one point - but that's not a sensible or musical approach. In your other road trip analogy, you stay on the road, right? You don't drive over the fields (that's analagous to playing out of tune or in the wrong key). But when you come to junctions, you can choose any road you like. The analogy breaks down a little here, because that would be like just jamming, creating a chord sequence as you go. Most improvisation is on an existing chord sequence. The route is mapped out for you, in that sense - there's a destination you need to reach, and places you need to pass through on the way. If the chords change from C to F, you don't change from C to A. Again, that exposes the flaws in the analogy. There's nothing creative in driving on a given road (I guess you could zigzag around from side to side...). But there's plenty of creativity available in playing on a given chord sequence. Maybe it's more like walking on the road than driving. Everybody walks in their own way. You could run, shuffle, hop, skip, dance, etc. You'd be travelling in the same direction as anyone else on that road, but expressing yourself at the same time. The map analogy is a better one, IMO (at least for composition). Music theory is a map. No harm in having the map in the car, in case you get lost. But you don't have to follow it. The map doesn't tell you where to go (it isn't a satnav!). It just shows you all the possible routes that are out there. It shows you which are the main roads, the most popular highways, the quickest and easiest ways to get from A to B (or Bb ). But you can take the back roads if you want. You might even find roads that aren't on the map. (If your map is only beginner theory.) But when you get stuck, and can't find your way home, then the map can help you out. The mistake would be to trust the map too much - to believe that the map is always right (and complete), and the landscape somehow wrong if it contains something not on the map.
__________________
"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. Last edited by JonPR; 03-10-2017 at 05:55 AM. |