Budget carbon fiber guitar, is it possible?

[joeguam]

So Yamaha has been able to produce a line of spectacular sounding guitars at affordable prices like the FG730S. Do you think it'll ever be possible with CF?

I love my Rainsong Shorty, but I know it's out of reach price-wise for many, especially those skeptical of CF guitars. What makes CF guitars so pricey? Is the materials? Build process? Tooling?

[Earl49]

Yes, all of those. The CF materials cost several times the price of quality tone woods, as go into Taylor, Martin and similar guitars. The necessary molds are expensive, and the build process requires special techniques (temperature controlled vacuum curing) and knowledge.

Inexpensive overseas labor and fiberglass cloth instead of carbon fiber might bring the price down some, but no major progress is likely unless the materials suddenly become much cheaper - like one-third the cost. There is still a huge learning cuve, apart from the materials, to get good tone and good builds.

Yamaha uses the basic well developed traditional build process and low cost laminated woods. Factory economy of scale and inexpensive raw materials make the 700's and 800's feasible. The closest I've seen is the short-lived Rainsong PMJ series from 10-12 years ago - i used to own one. They used CF tops with laminated wood bodies and necks. The idea was to lower the price point. But at a cost still over $1000 it was still not a viable market option, and only survived a couple of years.

[TheChicagoTodd]

JoeGuam...

That's a really great question. Carbon fiber seems to be a bit of a niche market none of the major manufacturers making them as far as I know. It does make you wonder if a larger producer with big manufacturing capabilities where to go ahead ...would they be able to pump out a carbon fiber guitar in the $300 range.

Todd in Chicago

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

[LSemmens]

It's a very good thought. I wonder if anyone has attempted an injection moulded guitar of another material (plastic?) I've not heard a CF guitar so cannot comment on its tonality but I would have considered it to have had similar characteristics to plastic rather than timber.

If they could make a plastic guitar that sounded reasonable then they might be able to corner the marked of affordable instruments.

[Ceabeceabe]

Maccaferri made a non-toy plastic guitar for a while.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by LSemmens

It's a very good thought. I wonder if anyone has attempted an injection moulded guitar of another material (plastic?) I've not heard a CF guitar so cannot comment on its tonality but I would have considered it to have had similar characteristics to plastic rather than timber.

If they could make a plastic guitar that sounded reasonable then they might be able to corner the marked of affordable instruments.

You would be surprised. I think this is one of CF manufacturers biggest hurdles- getting their guitars into the hands of the traditionally minded. CF instrument design has come a long way from 20 years ago and the tone has become good enough for many serious artists. It is a medium to contend with that sounds like carbon fiber. In the right hands it can sound absolutely magical- just like what the luthiers of fine wood instruments have already been doing.

It doesn't sound like plastic.
It doesn't sound like wood.

But it is impervious to the havoc nature wreaks on wood guitars- and that alone is often worth the price of admission.

Also keep in mind that the best guitar makers in the industry have a lot of history and R&D backing them up- the most famous of which has well over 100 years. Carbon fiber only has about 20 years (with Emerald and Rainsong the pioneers). We must ask ourselves a couple questions then:

-What will CF guitars sound like 80 years from now, what designs will make them sound better and better?

-What other materials will make great guitars when we have all but gutted traditional tonewood forests?

As a side-note, I love wood guitars and just today finally got my paws on a Martin Dreadnought Jr. I absolutely loved it and nearly pulled the trigger but I want to try the all sapele model before deciding. I'm only mentioning this because I will always love the classic builds and tones. However, when I got home I picked up my Rainsong and was reminded all over again why I bought this guitar. The Martin didn't come near in responsiveness, the bass, the projection, and especially the clarity I get from my Rainsong.

[sirwhale]

Surely "eKoa", if the idea of natural fibres takes off, should be much cheaper when other companies and options of fibres become available.

At the moment it just looks like one company that makes it.

Then it would just be the cost of the moulds and the expertise.

[Doubleneck]

One of the problems is the market for these guitars is just too small to attract major manufacturers that might be able to lower that cost by spreading it over higher volume production. Their production per year is at the high end in the thousands at best. Wood, 100s of thousands. And wood grows on trees pretty cheaply. Lol

[fazool]

One company is actively trying to do this with a Kickstarter-type campaign. Their idea is make the body of CF and keep the neck solid wood to lower the cost. Figuring the neck is susceptible to environmental trauma, they can lwoer the cost there.

The guitar is significantly cheaper than other CF's but I don't think it's ready yet for mass sales.

I also think "if I buy a CF guitar, I want something I can paddle a canoe with, and shovel out an igloo in case I get stranded with my guitar in a blizzard).

Ridiculous, I know, but hey....that's my thought.

[Steve Christens]

How about polycarbonate instead of CF?

There is a company in Oregon called Outdoor Ukulele that makes soprano and tenor ukuleles entirely out of polycarbonate. I played one of their tenors the other day ($150) and was VERY impressed. I've suggested to them that they ought to consider a small sized travel guitar next, but I think they're a bit too small just yet to develop another model. Anyone who also plays ukulele should definitely check them out.

http://www.outdoorukulele.com/

[joeguam]

Originally Posted by Steve Christens

How about polycarbonate instead of CF?



There is a company in Oregon called Outdoor Ukulele that makes soprano and tenor ukuleles entirely out of polycarbonate. I played one of their tenors the other day ($150) and was VERY impressed. I've suggested to them that they ought to consider a small sized travel guitar next, but I think they're a bit too small just yet to develop another model. Anyone who also plays ukulele should definitely check them out.



http://www.outdoorukulele.com/

Dang Steve, just when I thought there wasn't any new gear out there that I wanted. To be honest though, I'd like to buy one for my 2 year old daughter. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure! [emoji23]

Outdoor Uke got a lot of attention on the old MacNichol forum. I don't remember what was said, but the responses were generally positive. I tried to get the company interested in a suitcase guitar, but that was a no go.

There were some pretty interest Maccaferri guitars but they were a bit ahead of their time and did not have the same variety of materials now available.

[guitararmy]

A carbon fiber top mated to a composite body might be an economical alternative to an all-carbon fiber guitar....

I had one of those projection series Rainsongs. It sounded muted, I assume because of the spruce top....

[gerardo1000]

If I remember well, Projection Series guitars from Rainsong had a carbon fiber top, not a spruce top ? And they had laminated wood back and sides.

[guitararmy]

Oops you're right about the Projection series. Actually I was confusing the sound of it with the AWS series, which was a less expensive non-wood Rainsong model.