Any way to treat a guitar made in high humidity for use in low?

[Tzetsin]

Hi fellas, I'm a pretty new guitar player so I really don't know all the little things about maintenance and whatnot so I've got a question.

Firstly a bit of backstory...

I've been interested in playing guitar for as long as I can remember. I don't remember much about my childhood, but I still remember telling my mother how much I loved guitar and her asking me if i wanted lessons, and how enthusiastic I was. I couldn't have been more than 5 or 6 years old. I took lessons for 5 years and after that time I still hadn't been taught a single chord... I learned absolutely nothing and at that age I don't know if i should blame myself or my teacher, but I gave it up for a long time.

Over the years, I'm 36 now, I probably picked up a guitar with the intention to learn 10 times or more and never did any better.

Well last year I was in the Philippines and came across a Luther there that had some really amazing "looking" custom guitars on the wall. I say "looking" because i really didn't know much about tone, sustain ect at the time to tell if they actually sounded good. Well, the craftsmanship of the artwork on the guitars was something I could definitely quantify so I pulled the pin and designed / ordered myself a custom guitar from this luther.

I DID know about humidity issues at the time and expressed concern about the construction in the Phils and taking it to Canada. The luther reassured me that he had a lot of foreign customers and did a lot of mass produced guitars for export to north america. He showed me his humidity controlled wood storage area and I was satisfied.

After 3 agonizing months my guitar was finally finished and I flew back to the Philippines to get it.

The guitar is a work of art. I know a lot more about guitar tone now and can confidently say (though my own ear and the ear of every guitar player I've handed it to) that the sound is absolutely fantastic.

I've been so in love with this guitar that since the moment i picked it up I've had to be FORCED to put it down. My guitar skill has gone from non existant to "definitely getting there" since I got it in October.

Then the problems started....

The humidity has definitely become a problem...

Canada is extrememly dry in the winter, and our homes are even more so because they are heated with blowing hot air.

I was diligent in keeping a sponge humidifier in the sound hole, but it simply wasnt enough.

after a couple months in canada the back of the body started to "cave in" and developed some cracks, the soundboard is perfect so far, but the fretboard seems to have shrunk and upset the frets. Eventually the guitar was no longer playable.

I had the guitar repaired, and it was allowed to soak up some humidity, the frets were redressed and the cracks filled in. It hasn't seemed to upset the sound at all, its still plays as beautifully now as it did before, which is awesome.

The problem is that I've got 2 huge humidifiers going almost 24 / 7 in my house to keep the humidity up. I had 2 sponge humidifiers in the case and it wasn't keeping up at all. As soon as the humidity dips a little, the back starts to cave in again and I start getting buzzing.

Its really easy to see when the humidity drops a little because of the shift in the guitar, but I can't help feeling like I've fallen in love with a person that has only a short time to live. I love this guitar, but I know that I can only keep her humidified the way she needs for a short time. eventually I'll have to go away long enough that when I come back she'll be past the point of rescue...

I have a home in the Philippines, so I can take her there and keep her comfortable forever, but I spend more time in canada than the Phils, so I'm just going to miss her too much. I've scoured the guitar shops in three major cities in Alberta and haven't found a single guitar that sounds remotely close to my custom guitar.

So finally to my questions!

Is there a way to treat a guitar built in high humidity for use in low humidity? I would love to keep this guitar with me, so if there is a way I can do this, that would be ideal.

I would love to have another built! (i know it sounds stupid considering the state of the first one, but this Luther's artwork is simply too good to resist) So my second question is, how long does it take wood taken from Canada to the Philippines to become saturated with humidity? Basically I want to know if i brough my own wood from canada for the Luther to build a second guitar, would it work, or simply become too saturated in the months it takes to build it?

Any insite would be great! Thank you

Jason

[Jim.S]

Nothing you can do to treat it Jason, you mentioned his (who is he?) humidity controlled storage but does he build in humidity controlled circumstances?

If you take dry guitar wood boards from Canada to the Phills about two-three days in the phills will see it reach the same level of saturation as the boards he has. There maybe be a bit of a difference in the boards though depending on how well seasoned they are but still he will build at whatever humidity he is building at.

Is it the artwork or the price? You could buy Canadian and have the builder build in a similar style if you can find one to accommodate your taste.

[printer2]

No.

How long does it take for your guitar to feel the effects of low humidity? Can the luither make a guitar in that time?


If the luither's shop can be kept at a low humidity level to build at you can always package your wood with a bag of desiccant to keep it dry till you get it there.



I built a body in my dry Canadian house, I made a level of my bench into a little environmental chamber and kept the wood at 35-45% for weeks before I built with it. After a day's building I returned the wood to the chamber to drink in moisture and continued building the next day. It is conceivable that your luither could do the same thing but instead of moisturizing as I did have the wood dried out using desiccant.

Now there are many guitars in Canada that survive the winters without being built in low humidity environments. Do you have a humidity gauge telling you what the percentage is in your guitar case? What is the humidity level in your home? What is the humidity level in the luither's shop? If he has built successfully for other people then maybe you just need to change something at your end. Most Canadian homes that require a lot of heating in winter (parts of BC is different) have a humidifier on the furnace to keep levels reasonable. Maybe have that looked at also.

[Ned Milburn]

Jason, welcome to the Forum.

First of all, it may not be just about ambient humidity. Unfortunately, I have seen guitars that were not built with well aged and seasoned wood. If wood is not aged and/or seasoned before building with it, there will be more issues with shrinkage than just ambient RH issues.

Also, building construction is very important. Every joint in a guitar is a lamination, and laminations of straight grained wood across cross-grained wood need to be considered carefully. In essence, an expansion/contraction joint should be made so the guitar can survive well in both higher AND lower humidities than the RH in which it was built.

Second, where are you from? If you are in the maritimes, feel free to come see me and I can easily look at your guitar and tell you something about it. If you are not in the Maritimes, there are a few other participating members of this forum across Canada who should be able to give you a well-qualified assessment of your instrument.

[printer2]

Or a picture or two.

[Tzetsin]

Originally Posted by Jim.S

Nothing you can do to treat it Jason, you mentioned his (who is he?) humidity controlled storage but does he build in humidity controlled circumstances?

If you take dry guitar wood boards from Canada to the Phills about two-three days in the phills will see it reach the same level of saturation as the boards he has. There maybe be a bit of a difference in the boards though depending on how well seasoned they are but still he will build at whatever humidity he is building at.

Is it the artwork or the price? You could buy Canadian and have the builder build in a similar style if you can find one to accommodate your taste.

Arg I was really hoping for a different answer I figured as much though.

No, the build area he was working in wasn't humidity controlled.

I'll be honest and say that the purchase in the phils was a bit of an impulse buy. I've never researched the cost of having a guitar custom made in Canada before, so I can't comment on price. The price i had the guitar built for was DEFINITELY affordable though, and the artwork on the guitar is undeniably well done with a very fine attention to detail.

Originally Posted by printer2

No.

How long does it take for your guitar to feel the effects of low humidity? Can the luither make a guitar in that time?


If the luither's shop can be kept at a low humidity level to build at you can always package your wood with a bag of desiccant to keep it dry till you get it there.



I built a body in my dry Canadian house, I made a level of my bench into a little environmental chamber and kept the wood at 35-45% for weeks before I built with it. After a day's building I returned the wood to the chamber to drink in moisture and continued building the next day. It is conceivable that your luither could do the same thing but instead of moisturizing as I did have the wood dried out using desiccant.

Now there are many guitars in Canada that survive the winters without being built in low humidity environments. Do you have a humidity gauge telling you what the percentage is in your guitar case? What is the humidity level in your home? What is the humidity level in the luither's shop? If he has built successfully for other people then maybe you just need to change something at your end. Most Canadian homes that require a lot of heating in winter (parts of BC is different) have a humidifier on the furnace to keep levels reasonable. Maybe have that looked at also.

I have a humidity guage in my home and in the case, the case is about 30% with 2 sponge humidifiers in it and I'm able to keep my home between 30 and 50% depending on how often I leave the house. The guitar actually seems ok at around 40% and starts acting up when it drops below 30 for a day or so.

The cave in on the back of the guitar is always a good indicator to how dry the house is. the more it sucks in the drier it is, the longer its in the humidity, the less caved in it gets.

Originally Posted by Ned Milburn

Jason, welcome to the Forum.

First of all, it may not be just about ambient humidity. Unfortunately, I have seen guitars that were not built with well aged and seasoned wood. If wood is not aged and/or seasoned before building with it, there will be more issues with shrinkage than just ambient RH issues.

Also, building construction is very important. Every joint in a guitar is a lamination, and laminations of straight grained wood across cross-grained wood need to be considered carefully. In essence, an expansion/contraction joint should be made so the guitar can survive well in both higher AND lower humidities than the RH in which it was built.

Second, where are you from? If you are in the maritimes, feel free to come see me and I can easily look at your guitar and tell you something about it. If you are not in the Maritimes, there are a few other participating members of this forum across Canada who should be able to give you a well-qualified assessment of your instrument.

Hi Ned, thank you for the welcome

I'm in Alberta (no place in particular, I travel all over the province) and I don't really make it to NS very often (though I do have a truckload of family out that way in Sheet Harbor and area) I would love for someone to be able to give me a good estimate of the guitar. I've handed it to a lot of musicians and everyone is able to tell me how great it sounds, but nobody can tell me how well its been made.

The attention to detail is there, for what I can see, but construction wise, i haven't got a clue.

If there is anyone in alberta, I do travel a lot and am in the grande prairie / edmonton / red deer / calgary areas quite often

I can't tell you much about the wood's age, or how it was built unfortunately, other than to tell you that the shop seemed to know what they were doing.

Originally Posted by printer2

Or a picture or two.

This I can do.

I'll shoot a few tonight... if i can put the guitar down long enough to pick up the camera...


This is the website of the shop I had it built in.

Ferangeli Guitar

[Tzetsin]

I was just thinking...

Was there any particular area of the guitar you wanted to see?

[John Arnold]

The cave in on the back of the guitar is always a good indicator to how dry the house is. the more it sucks in the drier it is, the longer its in the humidity, the less caved in it gets.

I believe the only recourse is to remove the back and rebrace it
Assuming the new braces reproduce the old ones exactly, you should end up with essentially the same sound.

The solution for building in high humidity is simple.....store the wood in a hot box, and glue the braces on immediately after removing the wood from the box.
The important factor is the moisture content of the wood when the braces are glued on it. The braces fix with width of the top and back, so if the wood dries out and shrinks, the resulting pull against the braces is what causes them to sink in.

[Tzetsin]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

I believe the only recourse is to remove the back and rebrace it
Assuming the new braces reproduce the old ones exactly, you should end up with essentially the same sound.

The solution for building in high humidity is simple.....store the wood in a hot box, and glue the braces on immediately after removing the wood from the box.
The important factor is the moisture content of the wood when the braces are glued on it. The braces fix with width of the top and back, so if the wood dries out and shrinks, the resulting pull against the braces is what causes them to sink in.

Can this be done by a luther in canada or does it need to be done by the original luther?

[John Arnold]

Any good repairman should be able to do it.
What wood is the back?

[Tzetsin]

The woods used are:

Engleman spruce top
Indian rosewood back and sides
Ebony fretboard

[dhalbert]

In the meantime perhaps keeping the guitar in a sealed-up environment like a tied-up plastic bag with one or more sponge humidifiers will help.

[Quickstep192]

I may be bragging a little bit, but........

I added a steam generating whole house humidifier to my house several years ago and it's among the best things I've done. We don't have the shocks from static electricity, it feels warmer and the guitars love it.