mandolin won't stay in tune

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by charmedlife417

I'm looking for someone who specializes in mandolins, not just a guitar luthier.

I'm sure there must be some repair techs who specialize in mandolins, but they've got to be few and far between. I've been playing mandolin since 1975, but have never met any. I've never had any problems with guitar repairmen working on my mandolins: so long as they're good at working on acoustic guitars, chances are that they'll do fine on mandolins, too.


whm

[Teleman52]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

I'm sure there must be some repair techs who specialize in mandolins, but they've got to be few and far between. I've been playing mandolin since 1975, but have never met any. I've never had any problems with guitar repairmen working on my mandolins: so long as they're good at working on acoustic guitars, chances are that they'll do fine on mandolins, too.


whm

agreed, it does help if they have spent a bit of time working on archtop guitars. An archtop guitar is much closer to being just a big mandolin than a flat top guitar.

but anyone who is really skilled at working on guitars, should be able to do a good job on a wide variety of stringed instruments. They all work on the same principles.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Good input. I'm just thinking someone who has at least spent some time working on mandys, not exclusively a mandolin tech only. That would lead to a starvation diet in the metro area where I live.

[GerryinAZ]

I've had a couple of bad experiences with techs who only know fixed-bridge flat top guitars. Electric, or acoustic.

I am fortunate that I have enough experience to work on my own. If it's something beyond my capability, like repairing a crack, or finish issue I would send/ship it to someone I trust.

If I were in a bind, the only place I'd take one of mine in my locale would be a string shop, i.e. a violin family expert before I'd let a guitar guy, acoustic or electric touch it. Unless s/he had extensive floating bridge, arch top experience.

[Teleman52]

Remember though, were talking about tuning issues. An arched top floating bridge isn't going to be very different from a fixed bridge flat top instrument as far as fixing tuning issues. There's really only three places to check, in this order.

Nut slots
Bridge slots
Tuners.

I used to have tuning issues with my mandolin until I realized the saddle turned around backwards. So that might be something to check

[Charmed Life Picks]

TeleMan, makes sense. I'll keep that in mind as I look for a good luthier.

Thanks,
Charmed Life

[GerryinAZ]

Originally Posted by Teleman52

...Snip!< An arched top floating bridge isn't going to be very different from a fixed bridge flat top instrument as far as fixing tuning issues. >snip!

A floating bridge is quite a bit different than a fixed bridge. In both versions, the bridge is where an instruments intonation is set. If the intonation is out it doesn't matter what you do with the nut, tuners, or slots. The instrument will never tune up.

With a fixed bridge, all you can really do to fine tune the instrument is intonate the saddle. If the actual bridge moves, you've got problems.

With a floating bridge the location of the bridge is critical and it will move. It's held in place when the strings are up to pitch, but it will move. I have to check mine fairly regularly as I can get a little heavy with my right hand and it will budge enough to drive me crazy when trying to tune up.

For those new to the instrument, when you change strings it's critical to get the bridge back where it was before you started. Some folks change one course at a time so the bridge doesn't need to be removed. Whatever works. It's not hard to reintonate/set the bridge. Just takes a little patience.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Gerry, good advice. I'll keep a close eye on bridge next time I change strings.

[Teleman52]

Originally Posted by GerryinAZ

A floating bridge is quite a bit different than a fixed bridge. In both versions, the bridge is where an instruments intonation is set. If the intonation is out it doesn't matter what you do with the nut, tuners, or slots. The instrument will never tune up.

With a fixed bridge, all you can really do to fine tune the instrument is intonate the saddle. If the actual bridge moves, you've got problems.

With a floating bridge the location of the bridge is critical and it will move. It's held in place when the strings are up to pitch, but it will move. I have to check mine fairly regularly as I can get a little heavy with my right hand and it will budge enough to drive me crazy when trying to tune up.

For those new to the instrument, when you change strings it's critical to get the bridge back where it was before you started. Some folks change one course at a time so the bridge doesn't need to be removed. Whatever works. It's not hard to reintonate/set the bridge. Just takes a little patience.

All true, but your snipping kind of took me out of context.

What I said was , as far as dealing with tuning issues they are not that different. Your talking about intonation which is a totally different issue.

The only real difference (again as far as dealing with tuning issues) is that there are bridge slots on a mandolin where as there are not any on a guitar. But if a tech can deal with nut slots than he can surely deal with bridge slots


Btw- I don't think it's the bridge that causes tuning issues. Arch top guitars have a very similar bridge and don't have the woes that mandolins do.

I believe the tuning issues arise in mandolins because of two things more or less

1. The string tension is much higher than a guitar.

2. Because there are pairs of strings, it is much more noticeable when a string goes out of tune, because it sounds off when compared to the other string in the course.

[GGSanders]

New quality tuning gears, whether Grover, Gotoh, Schaller or other will help with getting the mandolin in tune, and mayhelp keep it in tune. I swapped the economy tuners my old Flatiron came with with Schallers and it definitely tunes up easier, but I don't know if it stays in tune any better. Just make sure that what you select, if you do this upgrade, fits. While the string post spacing is pretty standard for all but vintage instruments, the backing plates vary in length. Schallers just fit my headstock, but the plates on Grovers didn't. Tuning issues are just the nature of the beast. Temperature and humidity changes will upset the tuning. I've never had it stay tuned over night. It warms up as you hold it close while you play it, and the tuning changes. If it's set up properly, nut slots cut and bridge in the proper place for intonation, you will still have to mess with it. If it came with cheapo tuning gears, new quality ones will just make it easier, that's all.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Teleman & GG, thanks, good sound advice. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks Again,
CL

[varmonter]

Like most said tuner and nut issues can drive you crazy.
Bridge issues are more intonation related where the mando is out
Of tune as you play up the neck.I suppose you could possibly get string binding
In the bridge but I would think rarely.I am fortunate that the Luthier that built my Rigel mando lives in the same town as me.

[lapetrarca]

Well, I have a budget Rover RM-35 student model mandolin. I replaced the stock tuners with a set of Allparts 14:1 tuners and upgraded the stock bridge to a higher quality Rosewood one.

Both of these took place at the same time so I can't say whether one did or didn't have any effect but, it is easier to tune and stays in tune better now.

The new bridge is also slightly larger than the original so, because of the increase in surface area in contact with the top of the instrument, more sound is being transferred to the body cavity and, as a result, there's been a fairly noticeable increase in volume.

All in all, I did my shopping and both upgrades came in at under $25 in total. Well worth it.......IMO.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by varmonter

Like most said tuner and nut issues can drive you crazy.
Bridge issues are more intonation related where the mando is out
Of tune as you play up the neck.I suppose you could possibly get string binding
In the bridge but I would think rarely.I am fortunate that the Luthier that built my Rigel mando lives in the same town as me.

Varmonter, thanks.

Funny, I noticed in my last jam it seemed to stay in tune much better. I think part of the deal last time was because my best buddy, who's a big burly guy, plays much more vigorously than me. He doesn't abuse the instrument -- he's a great player -- but he's just stronger. When it came to me playing it with my lighter touch, it did well most of the evening.

Still, compared to my HD-28 and other axes, it's much more tempermental re tuning.

Thanks!

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by lapetrarca

Well, I have a budget Rover RM-35 student model mandolin. I replaced the stock tuners with a set of Allparts 14:1 tuners and upgraded the stock bridge to a higher quality Rosewood one.

Both of these took place at the same time so I can't say whether one did or didn't have any effect but, it is easier to tune and stays in tune better now.

The new bridge is also slightly larger than the original so, because of the increase in surface area in contact with the top of the instrument, more sound is being transferred to the body cavity and, as a result, there's been a fairly noticeable increase in volume.

All in all, I did my shopping and both upgrades came in at under $25 in total. Well worth it.......IMO.

Thanks. Appreciate the info.

If you have a moment, could you send me the link to the website where you bought the parts. I know Mandolin Bros has a lot of stuff, but it seemed kinda pricey when I looked there.