Music in grade school

[flaggerphil]

Originally Posted by RustyZombie

I will say a bad music teacher, or one with the wrong attitude, is perhaps worse than no music program at all.

My ex-wife and I went to the same school K through 12. I think it was the fourth or fifth grade you could join the school band, which she did, choosing clarinet as her instrument. Partway into middle school, they hired a new band teacher. He was very knowledgeable, but to say his people skills needed some work would be quite an understatement. By that time my ex-wife had become pretty good (for a middle schooler) at the clarinet. But one day, when she couldn't play an difficult passage perfectly after a couple tries, he asked her, "If you can't play what I want and how I want it, why do you even (f-word) play at all?". She already self-confidence issues (among other issues) because of her parents, and after that she was never able to seriously pick up the clarinet again.

At least she kept singing. She always had a beautiful voice.

Wow! If I knew a teacher said something like that to one of my kids or grandkids there would be a very interesting discussion with the school administrators. The language alone should have shut this teacher down.

IMHO.

[RustyZombie]

Originally Posted by flaggerphil

Wow! If I knew a teacher said something like that to one of my kids or grandkids there would be a very interesting discussion with the school administrators. The language alone should have shut this teacher down.

IMHO.

That school district was never very good, but at least he got talked to a few times for his language by the administration. A few parents got in his face too. His cursing stopped, but his way to dealing with students, or anyone for that matter, didn't otherwise change. A significant number of kids did end up quitting band because they didn't want to deal with him.

I will admit that the school band did become very good under his direction, and in under a year. But I always did wonder how much those that stayed enjoyed it.

[BrunoBlack]

Originally Posted by RustyZombie

That school district was never very good, but at least he got talked to a few times for his language by the administration. A few parents got in his face too. His cursing stopped, but his way to dealing with students, or anyone for that matter, didn't otherwise change. A significant number of kids did end up quitting band because they didn't want to deal with him.

I will admit that the school band did become very good under his direction, and in under a year. But I always did wonder how much those that stayed enjoyed it.

Sounds like J K Simmons in the movie Whiplash
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2582802/

[Tyeetime]

I remember reading a story about a basketball player having difficulties in high school with his academics. Someone suggested he study while shooting baskets, and they found he did way better on exams. I guess that part of the brain that made him good at something unlocked a door and made learning easier.

I have tried the same sort of thing strumming my guitar while studying and I feel like it really helps.

Bottom line for me is that art can aid academics. The more we work both sides of our brain, the better.

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by HHP

I think music, sports, arts are all worthwhile parts of an education IF the basic requirements of reading, writing, math, science and history are being met. Based on my interactions with recent high school and college graduates, I'm uncertain that the basics are being met.

Yes, judging by the standard of writing achieved by many high school graduates, I can't help but wonder if the authorities might be better off ditching English and getting the kids drawing and/or playing musical instruments instead!

[PorkPieGuy]

We home school our kids.

My daughter, who just finished third grade, is doing most things on a 5th or 6th grade level. My wife teaches her math, science, and history, and I teach her writing and reading comprehension (I teach college-level English classes as my chosen profession). My daughter sings every week in children's choir at church as does my 6-year-old son. All three of my kids (my youngest is 4) also sit in during music practice at church many late Wednesday nights in addition to early Sunday mornings. They also sit through two music sets every Sunday morning (I play drums at church and my wife plays bass). I also play with another band and we either practice on Sunday afternoons or Thursday evenings and the kids can be seen sitting on the couch watching and listening to us. We got rid of our TV in our living room, bought a cheap sound-bar for the mantle, and play music on it instead of watching cable or satellite.

Outside of academics, church, and music, they are all also learning about gardening and what it takes to raise goats, sheep, chickens, pigs, and dogs...in addition to raising a garden, soap making, goat milking, egg gathering, hay throwing, canning, etc. As a matter of fact, my daughter was out in the field helping us chase chickens back into the chicken tractor this past and didn't complain one single time.

My daughter and 4-year-old son will be in dance this year, and my 6-year-old son will be taught private swimming lessons by yours truly. I'm hoping to have him doing laps by the end of the school year (I have 10 years' experience in lifeguarding, lifeguard instructing, and teaching swimming lessons to people of all ages).

No, we don't have a lot of money, and we drive older vehicles. We don't have a lot of "extras" and we do cheap vacations when available. Our house is always a wreck, dishes are always in the sink and spilling over onto the counter, and laundry is never, ever caught up. Ever. With that said, I want my kids to know that their folks loved them, loved music, and taught them some pretty useful stuff along the way...because public schools in NC sure isn't doing it.

[PorkPieGuy]

Originally Posted by RustyZombie

I will say a bad music teacher, or one with the wrong attitude, is perhaps worse than no music program at all.

My ex-wife and I went to the same school K through 12. I think it was the fourth or fifth grade you could join the school band, which she did, choosing clarinet as her instrument. Partway into middle school, they hired a new band teacher. He was very knowledgeable, but to say his people skills needed some work would be quite an understatement. By that time my ex-wife had become pretty good (for a middle schooler) at the clarinet. But one day, when she couldn't play an difficult passage perfectly after a couple tries, he asked her, "If you can't play what I want and how I want it, why do you even (f-word) play at all?". She already self-confidence issues (among other issues) because of her parents, and after that she was never able to seriously pick up the clarinet again.

At least she kept singing. She always had a beautiful voice.

There are some pretty psychotic music instructors out there. I know that I've had one. Crazy.

[Ghostpicker]

I am fortunate enough to live in an area that does still value music education. My daughter is a full-time music teacher at a K-5 public school. She sees every student at least twice a week for music instruction. They perform various concerts and two musicals through out the year. In addition, they have an after school choir that performs at nursing homes and public events.

Brain research studies indicate that developing music abilities also helps develop other parts of the brain. Standardized test scores seem to bare this out, showing math scores of students involved in music to be higher than those not involved.

That aside, developing music skills is a gift that lasts a lifetime. I wish every district could see the value in it.

[PorkPieGuy]

Originally Posted by Ghostpicker

I am fortunate enough to live in an area that does still value music education. My daughter is a full-time music teacher at a K-5 public school. She sees every student at least twice a week for music instruction. They perform various concerts and two musicals through out the year. In addition, they have an after school choir that performs at nursing homes and public events.

Brain research studies indicate that developing music abilities also helps develop other parts of the brain. Standardized test scores seem to bare this out, showing math scores of students involved in music to be higher than those not involved.

That aside, developing music skills is a gift that lasts a lifetime. I wish every district could see the value in it.

In which state does she work?

[Jim Owen]

I worry over this--the recent STEM initiatives have become the latest best thing in Georgia. As a guy who has spent his life studying and teaching in the humanities, I feel we are losing the creative force that individuals need.

I was lucky. When I went to elementary school, music and art were part of the curriculum. We sang in class--learnt my first Woody Guthrie song in 6th grade (and I still perform it). While Fred Olds Elementary in Raleigh didn't have a full-time music teacher except for the orchestra director, we did have a marvelous woman who shared time with the local schools. She played the Autoharp. We learnt the recorder and how to read notes.

I reckon as an off shoot of The Great Society, we all got our hearing tested including our pitch in 4th grade.

I looked forward to music and art. I'm thinking we spend a lot of time drilling the "basics" now, at the expense of developing kids' abilities.

I teach college. The changes I've seen in the overall preparedness over the past ten years astounds me. Yet I'm told that students' days are crammed full of instruction.

[architype]

Originally Posted by Jim Owen

I worry over this--the recent STEM initiatives have become the latest best thing in Georgia. As a guy who has spent his life studying and teaching in the humanities, I feel we are losing the creative force that individuals need.

I was lucky. When I went to elementary school, music and art were part of the curriculum. We sang in class--learnt my first Woody Guthrie song in 6th grade (and I still perform it). While Fred Olds Elementary in Raleigh didn't have a full-time music teacher except for the orchestra director, we did have a marvelous woman who shared time with the local schools. She played the Autoharp. We learnt the recorder and how to read notes.

I reckon as an off shoot of The Great Society, we all got our hearing tested including our pitch in 4th grade.

I looked forward to music and art. I'm thinking we spend a lot of time drilling the "basics" now, at the expense of developing kids' abilities.

I teach college. The changes I've seen in the overall preparedness over the past ten years astounds me. Yet I'm told that students' days are crammed full of instruction.

That's what over a decade of teaching to pass a test will do.
We need to be teaching kids critical thinking skills and art and music play a big roll in developing that part of the brain.

[3rd_harmonic]

all I'll say is that I was in my 20s before I figured out what "rhythm" is. My fault? School's fault? Don't know. Now I know...but still can hardly do.

[catdaddy]

Originally Posted by Chicago Sandy

Well, in once-or-twice-a-week music appreciation class in grade school, I learned about classical composers, genres, different instruments in orchestras and bands, world music, and the basics of musical theory.

So essentially your grade school provided pre-teens with my university Music Appreciation 101 course. I obviously grew up in the wrong school district.

[Ghostpicker]

Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy

In which state does she work?

Ohio - Suburb of Columbus.

[Shoreline Music]

In San Diego, every elementary school my kids were eligible for had chucked music in all its forms. For several years, the parents pitched in to pay for a music teacher, independent of the district.

I find that it is less a matter of funding and more a matter of priority, but ours is not the first generation to think the three Rs are more important than the rest. Civil War colonel Francis Parker was a man ahead of his time, using phonics to teach reading, teaching science by going hands-on with nature, and insisting that music and physical play were as important as addition and subtraction to intellectual development. From K-12 I went to one of his namesake schools, and music—not only appreciation but vocal and instrumental performance—was an essential and ongoing part of the curriculum.

Without music as part of my day, the tedium of school would have overwhelmed me. I can only imagine what it's like for kids who don't get any music at all.