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  #106  
Old 10-22-2015, 09:57 AM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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I concur 100% with what Doug has suggested. Furthermore, our bass player often asks that I use the board’s EQ to build him a bigger playground (cut my guitar’s bass way back, and trim his top end).

I just picked up a Radial PZ-DI. This is a well made DI box with an adjustable HPF. For my OO sized guitar, the DI’s filter is at about noon and the Lyric’s presence is about ¼ turn from zero.

The sound is pretty good, it allows the board’s EQ to be nearly flat, and is in keeping with my “don’t add more pre-amps” philosophy.
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  #107  
Old 10-22-2015, 11:57 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by stevecuss View Post
+1 to Doug.

Incidentally, me saying '+1 to Doug' is like Luke Skywalker endorsing Obi Wan's opinion....

The Lyric's weakness is the lack of enhanced bass response that performers have been used to for decades. So yeah, adding another source, or switching the Lyric for an Anthem will assist greatly.

But it sounds to me that your primary issue is the quality of your monitor speaker, more than than an issue with the Lyric. If the Lyric sounds great in the house but not on stage, I think you are left with 4 options:

1) Upgrade the monitor system.
2) Eq the monitor and hope the bass doesn't feedback. (incidentally, I'm pretty sure the Lyric has some crazy multi band compressor in the preamp that doesn't allow much bass boosting.)
3) Live with the reality that monitor sound is often subpar.
4) Add a UST or K&K or switch out for an Anthem which is sort of a 'lyric plus enhanced bass' solution.

I have an Anthem in my jumbo Mcilroy. My buddy has a Lyric in his Collings OM and a K&K in his Goodall SJ. Of course each instrument is unique, but:

Mcilroy: very plug and play, mild quack from UST, great bass for days.
Collings: Cuts through a rock band, I can't believe the lyric can play that volume without feedback. Sounds thin on the low end when solo.
Goodall: most feedback prone, but gorgeous bass rich finger style.

good luck! What a maddening chase we are all on. We buy the guitar of our dreams and then spend crazy money trying to make it sound like it did before we plugged it in.
I want to point out that I knew going in that the Lyric wouldn't have that enhanced bass that I am used to. Still, I wanted to give it a try. I don't think it's so much that I need that enhanced bass because it's how pickups in the past have sounded. It's more so the feel of the pickup. With the Lyric, I struggle to play single note lines because the notes are not full. If I put a capo on my guitar, my guitar becomes brighter and thinner when strummed. Out front it sounds great because there are multiple speakers and for the crowd, they are far enough away that it's not immediately in their face. They are also not performing with the pickup. I am trying to be clear here but it's difficult. It's just all about feel I guess.

The monitors I was using were very high end. I have no reason to believe that they were the issue. I just stand by the fact that the Lyric facing directly at me in the monitors just does not sound/feel great to me meaning I need a second source. It's kind of like when you pick up a guitar and strum it for the first time and realize it's not as full as you were hoping. It kind of impacts your playing.
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  #108  
Old 10-22-2015, 12:15 PM
stevecuss stevecuss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I want to point out that I knew going in that the Lyric wouldn't have that enhanced bass that I am used to. Still, I wanted to give it a try. I don't think it's so much that I need that enhanced bass because it's how pickups in the past have sounded. It's more so the feel of the pickup. With the Lyric, I struggle to play single note lines because the notes are not full. If I put a capo on my guitar, my guitar becomes brighter and thinner when strummed. Out front it sounds great because there are multiple speakers and for the crowd, they are far enough away that it's not immediately in their face. They are also not performing with the pickup. I am trying to be clear here but it's difficult. It's just all about feel I guess.

The monitors I was using were very high end. I have no reason to believe that they were the issue. I just stand by the fact that the Lyric facing directly at me in the monitors just does not sound/feel great to me meaning I need a second source. It's kind of like when you pick up a guitar and strum it for the first time and realize it's not as full as you were hoping. It kind of impacts your playing.
Petty1818,

Very helpful response and for the record, I think you've communicated very clearly on the issue. "Feel" definitely affects a performers....er....performance, so I totally agree this small thing is in fact a big deal.

Do you have an opportunity to play a guitar with an Anthem? It may be very helpful if you could A/B your lyric equipped guitar next to an anthem equipped one. Of course, usual disclaimers of different guitars/different sounds. It sounds to me that what you're ultimately looking for is not well offered by the Lyric, unless somehow the monitor can be uniquely eq'd. But between Anthem, K&K and Lyric I agree that the Lyric sounds thinnest.
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  #109  
Old 10-22-2015, 12:29 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevecuss View Post
Petty1818,

Very helpful response and for the record, I think you've communicated very clearly on the issue. "Feel" definitely affects a performers....er....performance, so I totally agree this small thing is in fact a big deal.

Do you have an opportunity to play a guitar with an Anthem? It may be very helpful if you could A/B your lyric equipped guitar next to an anthem equipped one. Of course, usual disclaimers of different guitars/different sounds. It sounds to me that what you're ultimately looking for is not well offered by the Lyric, unless somehow the monitor can be uniquely eq'd. But between Anthem, K&K and Lyric I agree that the Lyric sounds thinnest.
I actually did have a chance to try the Anthem and I was impressed. The only downside is that I have never liked the tone of the Lr Baggs Element and you can clearly hear it with the Anthem. I am not giving up on the Lyric yet though since my tone out front was the closest I have been to perfection. I am either going to try it with another UST other than the Element or with the Barbera Soloist, which has been on my radar for quite some time.
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  #110  
Old 10-22-2015, 12:33 PM
stevecuss stevecuss is offline
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Great! Keep us posted on what you find. Lots of folks around here looking to perfect the Lyric with other options.

And yep, no question, the Anthem adds some quack (although not as much as a stand alone UST) AND many folks feel that the installation of the Bagss UST detracts from the acoustic sound of the guitar unplugged.
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  #111  
Old 12-09-2015, 10:41 AM
Cm3ohana Cm3ohana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I think this comes back to the conclusion several of us reached when the Lyric came out. Everyone *says* they want "just like my guitar only louder", and in my experience the Lyric comes pretty close to that. But most people don't really want that, they want "larger than life", even if that sounds nothing like their guitar, even if it sounds like a quacky UST, because that's what we've gotten used to.
+1 I've installed the Lyric in two guitars a Martin MMV and Taylor 210. I find that, in general, the Lyric captures the actual tone of the guitars well especially since they are used predominantly in a live setting. The guitars are used 95% for rhythm so, combined with the other instruments, been very happy with the results. To use them as solo instruments, I would probably use a LR Baggs Session DI or EQ as well as reverb and possibly delay to thicken up the sound and provide more depth but this is because the intent is different and it's now getting away from the true tone of the guitar...but this is purposeful for the intent as a solo instrument. I think it comes down to what your intent is and how satisfied are you with the true tone of your guitar. YMMV.
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  #112  
Old 12-09-2015, 11:15 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I think this comes back to the conclusion several of us reached when the Lyric came out. Everyone *says* they want "just like my guitar only louder", and in my experience the Lyric comes pretty close to that. But most people don't really want that, they want "larger than life", even if that sounds nothing like their guitar, even if it sounds like a quacky UST, because that's what we've gotten used to.

I agree with this. When faced with a band scenario, just the Lyric isn't what most players want to hear. I have no experience with the Anthem SL in a band scenario but I do in a duet. It works great and I really like the natural acoustic tones of the microphone with a little UST for bottom and punch.
I'm pretty certain this particular combo would be fine in a band situation.
If I were playing in a band a lot it seems sound hole pickups are better suited for that.
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  #113  
Old 12-10-2015, 04:58 AM
Mischief Mischief is offline
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I run the lyric in my Pono L-30 quite a small guitar. At fist I struggled with the sound and wondered if I made a mistake. Using the presence I could not get an adjustment of usable sound. There was a frequency that just raked on my nerves. I ended up using an acoustic play as my DI but after making some cuts on some frequencies the end result is a very natural sound and a fairly nice representation of my guitar only louder and as if I was playing it in a room with nice acoustics.
In finding the bad frequencies I ended up using an analyzer and found that the guitar acoustically peaked in a few frequencies. The lyric seemed to amplify those frequencies a little extra. So I cut on those frequencies using the acoustic play and then analyzed direct through my Play. I kept tweaking until the analyzer looked close to the graph of the guitar when played acoustically. Then I just add what reverb etc. to taste.

The analyzers were downloaded and I used 3 different ones to gain averages but they all seemed to work fine. After I used them to get close I really tweaked off my ears and going back and forth between plugged and unplugged.

Okay here's the main point. For me the lyric truly represented the guitar but exemplified some peak frequencies that were prominent acoustically but sound natural. Once tamed down it really is my guitar only louder.
Instead of adding so much bottom end that most yearn to hear when plugged in. I added a stomp box instead when I need the extra bottom end.
Works for me.


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