Sold my collings yesterday. Hate to be moribid but I'm in a rock in a hard place

[Goat Mick]

Originally Posted by Zissou Intern

Let me preface this by saying I am not trying to be inflammatory or a jerk; I am actually curious where the line is drawn...

Does your my word is my bond attitude only apply to instruments, or everything you purchase? What about the extra can of primer that you don't need? And the shoes that are just a little too tight and you, of course, haven't wore them out of the house the two since you purchased them? Or the work gloves you thought you needed until your wife reminded you that yours are in the back of her car where you left them last month? Do these things never get returned to the store? Do your strict dictums of honor apply only to guitars and not to relatively inexpensive every day items?

As a buyer, would you really tell the OP to ship the guitar because "A deal is a deal!"? Or would you realize that this guy wants to keep the Collings he is fond of and another guitar, with which you have no established relationship, can easily be found?

Regardless of your preface, this pretty much sounds like an attack to me but I'll answer the question.

If I buy it then I own it. If I get home and discover that I bought a pair of work gloves that I already have, then I've got an extra set of work gloves. As far as your reference to a pair of shoes (sort of absurd to this conversation) then I would probably go to the store and exchange them for a better fitting pair, but I wouldn't ask for my money back because I didn't have enough sense to buy shoes that fit.

And if you're approaching me in this manner because I also operate a business and am a forum sponsor, then I suggest that you speak to my customers about my customer service. I have not turned anyone away who has had any type of concern with my products after the sale.

I don't see a problem with the OP approaching the buyer with his concerns regarding the sale, but they buyer bought the guitar because he wanted it and he paid for it. If the buyer chooses to continue with the purchase then they have every right to do so.

[Zissou Intern]

Mick,
My question for you has absolutely nothing to do with your business or forum sponsorship. Why would it? Why would you think that? I have read nothing but good things about your picks.
Keith

[billyfamilyvide]

I once was enroute on a 5 hour trip about half way in to purchase a truck.

I was 3 hours into the trip when the guy called to tell me that he was having second thoughts and when he looked at the title for the vehicle which bore his sons name he just couldn't get rid of it. I immediately wheeled around because the item wasn't on the market anymore and thanked him for his time. This is what the second hand market is, and the way it operates. Sales fall through all of the time. Now- who the hell am I to demand he go through with the sale? I was someone interested in purchasing something and am at the will of the seller. Period.

Nobody with half a conscious would be happy forcing a sale out of you when there are so many other guitars on the market.

I whole heartedly agree with talking to the seller as I first suggested. You may be fretting over nothing.

[Mickey_C]

If it were me, and I decided to sell an instrument at a given price, and somebody sent me money for it, I would ship the guitar. Seems pretty simple to me. You made a business deal, and they sent you money (money that's currently tied up while you are deciding whether to follow through on your part).

Last but not least - it's doubtful your guitar's value is going to skyrocket now. The only pieces that would anyway would be non-workshop, personally luthiered, original early pieces. Which were already high priced.

If I were the buyer (and I am not) I would be concerned to see this thread. I hope it wasn't an AGF sale.

He may have already sold off another guitar in the interim, preparing to receive his Collings. You simply don't know. He's counting on you to come through.

Do the right thing.

[Bronsky]

Even though I voted Collings on the recent thread about which guitars will be the most expensive in 80 years, I don't think the price for used Collings is gonna go up after Bill's passing.

Collings is a big company, not a one man operation.
To give you some perspective, Collings and Waterloo guitars are even available in guitar shops here in Norway! We're talking about a global brand, not a small shop luthier.

Did used Gibsons go up in price after Ren Ferguson left the company?
Did used Taylors take a hit when Andy Powers took over the design?

[Mickey_C]

Originally Posted by billyfamilyvide

I once was enroute on a 5 hour trip about half way in to purchase a truck.

I was 3 hours into the trip when the guy called to tell me that he was having second thoughts and when he looked at the title for the vehicle which bore his sons name he just couldn't get rid of it. I immediately wheeled around because the item wasn't on the market anymore and thanked him for his time.

Sounds great. Now let's change it up a bit.

Imagine if you wired him the money a few days earlier, from your bank account, and now you were in route to get the vehicle.

Still okay with it all?

As the OP said, the buyer already sent the money.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Mr. Scott

Gibson? Martin?

yep, 'zackly

[billyfamilyvide]

Originally Posted by Mickey_C

Sounds great. Now let's change it up a bit.

Imagine if you wired him the money a few days earlier, from your bank account, and now you were in route to get the vehicle.

Still okay with it all?

As the OP said, the buyer already sent the money.

I did, actually. It was a friend of a friend so I felt comfortable enough to do so- fortunately.

If it had been a stranger (which seems to be the case here) I wouldn't have done that so I can see how my post might not help here.

However- even in that scenario, I'd have been happy to get my money back and move forward. With all of the trucks (guitars) out there I wouldn't want to drive (play) one with any sort of bad joojoo.

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by drewgrass

Im gonna ship the guitar. But i do know in my heart that if i would of known of his passing i would have pulled it down. This is not your run of the mill collings. I wont find another one like it. And i thought of it as a tribute to my favorite players. ......Ill do the right thing

End of thread.... he made his choice, and I applaud him for following through. Drew, there are plenty of other guitars out there and always will be.

[songman2]

There is of course another option: contact the buyer and talk to him, explain why you regret putting it up for sale and see if he might not agree to letting you keep it.

[Brick is Red]

If I were in the OP's position, I would have a hard time proceeding with the sale. Businesses often conduct transactions with boilerplate language expressly reserving the right to terminate a sale contract due to events including a "change in market condition". This might be a bit far fetched in this instance, but it could be argued that there was no meeting of the minds on either the sale of the instrument or the price in light of recent events. How do we know? Upon learning of Mr. Collings having passed away, the OP immediately had second thoughts and went to where his guitar was listed only to see that it had sold. Those circumstances suggests that OP would not have sold the guitar at that price or, perhaps, at all had he been adequately informed.

Unwittingly letting go of what could, in time, be essentially a "pre-CBS" Collings is a tough pill to swallow. If I were the buyer, I would simply think, "well, almost got that one" take my full refund and try for the next one.

I have not backed out of a sale after payment in full. Knowing myself, I would ship it. But, it's not unheard of to refund a purchase when new facts arise or conditions change.

[Mycroft]

With Collings gone, any one of several things could happen. They could carry on as before and maintain their current perception of quality. They could dilute the perception of quality inherent in the brand, perhaps through over-expansion or ill-advised corner-cutting. They could make decisions that result in their already high-quality brand being even better. The current owners could sell the company to a new group, and one of the three above could occur.

None of these things will happen quickly, likely as not. I have no idea of the structure of the Collings ownership nor the production organization. Or how they will react to Bill Collings passing from the scene. So if there does come a sharp delineation in the perceived value of pre and post-Bill guitars, we will not know for some while. (Think pre and post-CBS Fenders) Or they may carry on as before. (Think those Martin fellas)

As to the OPs original question? I've always tried to be a man of my word.

OMMV.

TW

[jhmulkey]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

I appreciate everyone's sensitivity to the feelings of the buyer, but the OP really doesn't have to hope the buyer understands or backs out or gives permission or anything like that. The OP can just cancel the sale. I don't like to disappoint anyone either and I'd be a little concerned about my reputation as a seller in this case, but this is really not such a dramatic issue, imo. Sales fall through. It's ok. It's not even a OOAK instrument and it hasn't been shipped, right? The buyer will just find another. I'm not saying OP should necessarily keep the guitar, just that cancelling the sale is not a big issue, imo.

I agree. If the guitar has not yet been transferred to the new owner, then I see no problem with cancelling a sale, as long as the buyer is fully reimbursed and as long as the seller is willing to accept any consequences that may come because of the cancellation, such as a negative review.

Now, if the guitar has been transferred already, that is another matter, because now you are asking for something back that someone else has already taken possession of.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

What online seller does not have provisions for cancellations, refunds, etc.? What state or country does not allow such provisions? If this were true in this case, the OP wouldn't ask the question.

It is only a part of a contract if the terms were explicit at the time of offer and acceptance. They can not be added retroactively without agreement by both parties.

The OP has already decided to send the guitar, so this is moot. But my point is that we don't know what vehicle the seller was using: himself, Reverb, Ebay, Craig's List. And generally the terms favor a buyer returning the item if it is not as described, not the seller changing their minds because, say, they got a better offer. Online selling companies will have the terms in their agreement for using their services. An individual, not so much.

TW

Edit: the AGF marketplace explicitly state that it is only providing a communications forum. There are no rules governing sales as they are not sellers. Therefore, terms are only those agree to by the buyer and seller.

[dragon1952]

People have changes of heart. Happens every day. It doesn't make them immoral The OP gets to keep his guitar, the buyer gets his money back and can search for another just like it.....no harm, no foul.