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#1
02-14-2018, 07:00 AM
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Too many choices, not enough money - Busking/Small presentations rig
Hi yet again!
I'm still overwhelmed by how many choices are out there and can't properly decide on anything. Already changed my mind a few times this past year. I want to build my rig piece by piece according to my needs. Right now I don't have anything other than a nice guitar. I play only american primitive guitar pieces. And I'm only playing to small attentive crowds (around 50 people max). But would like to play some general folk songs in a duet or something like that in the future. And maybe busk a little when I'm confident enough. I don't want to install anything that can change the acoustic characteristics of my guitar, like UTSs. And don't want anything permanent like superglue/epoxy on the bridgeplate. As people stated before I should experiment with micing the guitar first and see how it works out. Thing is I don't have enough money to mess around until I find the proper setup. A sm57 would be cheap and would plug into anything, since it doesn't need phantom power. But... If I'm going to expend any money it should be on something I can build into. I'm thinking down the road something like a dual source would be nice (no tonedexter for me). Probably a SDC and adding a pickup when needing something more resistant to feedback. The priority right now is being able to play more softly for better tone and accuracy and still be heard in these small settings. My list so far in order of acquisition is... 1-Mic: Must be sturdy, feedback resistant, and be able to pickup the low notes from the open tunings. So far my main candidate is the sm81, since it would probably be also an upgrade in my recording chain. (100-400 range) I don't want clip on mics like the DPA. Any advices on a small mic stand for playing seated, easy to carry around? 2-"Personal PA"/amp: Must be easy to carry around with a guitar (under 10kg if possible, 20kg max), must have great sound quality for those intimate settings, projecting the sound without making anyone deaf, must be able to reproduce the low notes of alternating base in the open tunings, if possible have two XLR inputs with 48v phantom power, if possible a balanced xlr/di out if I ever need to plug into something bigger, if possible some eq/feedback busting capabilities, and some busking capabilities like being able to add a battery if needed. Pretty much don't have any idea of what would be a good choice in this departament. Budget would be from 500 to 1k. Willing to go for slightly more if it doubles as a preamp/di. So far I looked into the popular choices fishman 330x(?), eon one, l1c. Also looking into the smaller EAE A4-8 and EAE D6-8. Roland street, AER Compact 60, etc. I also looked into the new s1. I love how discreet it it's, looks very pratical and easy to carry, but it doesn't have phantom power (could use a PB224 Dual Phantom Plus to bypass this issue, unless I give up and buy a sm57), and some people said that there are better choices in this price range. Or maybe I should go for a high quality preamp/di with phantom power like the felix and plug into a small speaker with a flat response. Could end up being way more expensive though... Down the road... 3-Pickup (if dealing with feedback): Really interested in the Phantom amulet (that's why the need for 2 phantom powered channels). I thought the battery version would be more pratical, but the main candidate is a 12 fretter, and i'm not sure if it would be too hard changing batteries with the longer upper bout. Don't think I will need effects pedals for the sort of music that I like (any advice in this area?). Also... Does the amulet alter in any way the unplugged sound of the guitar? Last edited by Vindellama; 02-14-2018 at 07:06 AM. 
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#2
02-14-2018, 07:28 AM
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We have had a Roland Cube Street EX for a couple of years. No phantom power, but a LOT of power and punch. It's our main gigging rig and you could easily play live in front of 100+ people. Rugged and zero issues through multiple gigs.
I have heard the Roland BA330 live too, and it's an excellent unit. I know nothing of the Bose except for what i have read here. Samson makes a batter powered speaker - Expedition XP106 that would probably serve well at a reasonable price point. Add a battery power mixer & good to go. I have not used it, but we have a 300 watt Samson PA and have had it for 8 years with no issues.
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Roy Ibanez, Recording King, Gretsch, Martin G&L, Squier, Orange (x 2), Bugera, JBL, Soundcraft Our duo website - UPDATED 7/26/19 Last edited by roylor4; 02-14-2018 at 07:33 AM. Reason: omission
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#3
02-14-2018, 08:58 AM
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For now I can at least recommend a portable mic stand. I've been using one of these for rehearsals and small gigs for a while now. Easy to carry around, sturdy, scalable, etc. I recommend getting the telescoping boom arm that goes with it: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...one_stand.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...geID/accessory Louis
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#4
02-14-2018, 09:19 AM
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You mentioned being portable and will be possibly be busking. I assume you will be in a variety of places, spaces.. both inside and outdoors
Speaker/amp. So many choices and as you know, several important decisions, including portability, ease of setup and whether you need battery power ...In addition to sound quality of course. Check out the Bose S1 Pro if portability is important to you.... It is small and very robust sounding speaker (for it's size). The auto EQing based on placement and versatility is amazing. In intimate venue, It sounds as good as my L1 Compact. Just doesn't have as far throw distance. Easily works for 20-30 people. But would be a stretch in a noisy 50+ person place. It is not a "blasting" speaker system. But it does sound excellent in it's intended application (small venue, busking, home practice system) I'm sure there are plenty of "better sounding" amps/speakers than the S1. The thing about the S1 Pro is it's hard to beat... When it comes to size, weight, portability, ease of setup and it's rich sound... of course it is pricey! But, I can take my guitar, chord and Bose ... Setup in in seconds literally anywhere ! Last edited by JakeStone; 02-14-2018 at 06:09 PM.
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#5
02-14-2018, 10:06 AM
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#7
02-14-2018, 04:47 PM
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- An SBT has no appreciable impact to the acoustic characteristics of your guitar, not sure why you would be hung up on this. If you have a scratch plate that's making thousands of times more difference to your tone than an SBT would. - Superglue on the bridge plate is not going to be noticed by you or anyone, should you decide to remove the SBT, these can be removed with a hobby knife and residual glue can be cleaned up with the right solvent. - You can experiment with mics, but you're heading down the wrong path if you're wanting big bass response out of an SDC. You're also starting out as a novice with the most troublesome way of amplifying a guitar, not advisable. - For your standalone PA/Amp needs, I suggest you look into Schertler amps, if I could have any amp I would get a Schertler, but in my case a P.A. suits my needs better, because I bring in other instruments/players from time to time. There was a post recently on the "holy grail" (my guitar, only louder) of plugged in tone, I suggest you read it. How your guitar sounds to you is not how it sounds to others and tones that work well in recordings may not work as well in a live scenario. There are so many variables, shape of the room, surface materials, furniture, crowd numbers/chatter, ambience, is there a breeze/draft, you cannot possibly control them all but they all affect how you sound to the audience. Your quest for a perfect tone will end up with you chasing your tail looking for more elaborate and tricky solutions and having increasingly impossible requirements. Look at live videos of your favourite guitarists, see who has the tone you like best and copy their signal chain. Edit: Here's the post I mentioned http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=499679 Last edited by takatsukimike; 02-14-2018 at 04:48 PM. Reason: knew what I was referring to but called it the wrong thing
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#8
02-14-2018, 05:02 PM
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And that's why I want to go with the mic route first... All my favorite guitarists don't use pickups. Only dynamic mics and SDCs.
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#9
02-15-2018, 05:31 AM
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I think you can over-think the whole thing, and we're all guilty of it.
An SM57 has been used for many decades by some of the greatest players in history. It's pretty much your guitar only louder, which is the goal to me. I don't like effects, I like pure acoustic music. So a decent amp or p.a. that doesn't sound BAD and a simple signal chain will work for you for not much money. 99% of the people you play for simply won't hear the difference anyhow, so just please yourself. This is David Lindley. 
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#10
02-18-2018, 10:11 PM
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Ok... So...
After reading a load of pages. I decided that I'm going to keep my L-00 and install a trance amulet mvt (with batteries) if it fits, most amps/preamps-di/etc don't have phantom power anyway and are optimized for 1/4" pickup inputs. As for mics I'm between the sm58 (same as the 57 but with "better" housing, is a Heil Sound PR 35 also a good choice?) and a sm81, maybe both along the way. And for PA/Speaker I came down to the Bose S1 and QSC k8.2. For only 50$ more the QSC seems to be the winner in specs. 5º wider coverage. Way more power (probably can handle large spaces with low noise, which I don't need in the forseable future). Internal eq with parametric mids and savable presets. "Rubber padding" (more durable). "Upgradable". The main con for my current needs is that it has almost double the size and double the weight of the S1. The 6.8 kg is easy to handle with a backpack, 12.2 kg not so much. The S1 looks much less intimidating and more of a set and go. (and has a battery compartment) That is the main pro of the S1 I can think of. Maybe the reverb is a good feature too. Don't think one would be less prone to feedback than the other, or that one will sound better with a guitar than the other (can someone chime in?). Maybe the S1 would be a better choice if the price drops over the year? Last edited by Vindellama; 02-18-2018 at 10:42 PM.
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#11
02-19-2018, 12:00 AM
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I think the starting place should be the music. You are using the term "American Primitive" which usually refers to acoustic playing like John Fahey or the blues players that influenced him, or the acoustic style that followed from this style. That means acoustic notes and finger style. Fahey himself used metal fingerpicks on rosewood guitars. If you want to get that sound out into the world by whatever amplification you have, the only pure way to do it is with a Tonedexter. A Tonedexter and a K&K mini will get the sound out of the guitar (as will almost any other pickup as long as it is not magnetic). These two items ($500 together) give you the pickup and the DI and after that it is a matter of the amplifier and there are many options for that. But if you don't have that basic acoustic guitar sound coming into the amp or the mixer, you are pissing into the wind. Tonedexter gives you basic EQ and feedback protection as well as a tuner and a boost pedal. You really don't need much more for acoustic music. Just my opinion….
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#12
02-27-2018, 07:11 AM
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I think as this is your first delve into acoustic amplification
the kiss factor will be the best approach. If you are indeed playing to a listening audience a mic will reproduce you sound the best. The sm81 is a great choice . it needs phantom power. i for one would put a small mixing board in your signal chain. The allen and heath zed10 is a good choice.. If you really plan to do a lot of busking the s1 runs on battery . The Qsc does not. If you really don't think you'll be busking the qsc is a better/ more robust unit and will allow you to play to bigger audiences in the future. it is much more powerful than the bose. This power allows you to sound better at lower volumes as well. Pickups are tricky ,require more eq and never really achieve that " my guitar only louder" A mic will do this but only to a point in the " louder category" Which is why there are pickups. That is unfortunately the trade off. The Tonedexter mentioned here attempt to do this. And it comes close but still sounds processed to my ear.
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