New Acoustic Amp - Mesa Boogie Rosette

[agedhorse]

Let me answer these questions below:

Originally Posted by Martin Maniac

Intriguing item.....in the owner's manual, it says that the Rosette architecture was modeled after a high end recording console. I'm really curious about this now......

There was not any single console that this was modeled after, it's the combination of both architecture and some specific circuit approaches together that are very console like. I was very involved with console design, support and service in the 1980's through the 2000's, and this architecture reflects what I thought worked well in the real world with a minimum of "pesky" issues.

Originally Posted by troggg

Well, obviously the suspects are Neve and API ... or maybe if you want to go way back Trident. What they have in common is what I alluded to, they make it fairly easy to achieve various flavors of "good." From what I can tell, this is what we paid extra for. While my testing of the mid priced competition was far from exhaustive, what I found on these was it was more like searching for the one good setting and maybe finding it as opposed to having plenty of good settings to choose from. I'm not gonna stake my life on that feeling, but that's what it feels like from here.

And while the manual (which I've been poring over as well, since as I said EQ has been a traditional weakness for me) doesn't cover it, I'm pretty sure the speakers are much more substantial than what goes into mid-priced acoustic amps; once again, I don't know that for sure.

If you're really curious, a Mesa engineer gave his contact information a while back in this thread. I took advantage of that. And it's one of the main reasons I wound up with a Rosette.

The architecture follows more of a touring live audio console but with elements of recording consoles incorporated as this operates more as a live audio piece rather than some of the unique routings that are common in (dedicated) recording consoles. I spent ~35 years mixing FOH (national/international touring acts) between all my "day job work" so I'm well aware of the struggles amplifying acoustic instruments and the need to up the game with more valuable tools for the pro player. These concepts were vetted over the years by some of the top acoustic players in the world, so there's a good confidence factor here.

Originally Posted by troggg

Just had another go at the EQ and feel like I made more progress. The manual reinforces some things that were in the back of my mind about setting EQ from observing engineers who are savants at it tweak recordings that I've tracked (which I've always trusted myself to do, as opposed to mixing).

Basically, if I didn't like a sound and I felt like trying to improve it, I'd start making wholesale changes ... which rarely worked. These guys would just tweak a couple of frequencies hardly at all ... then voila ... things sounded "official." So what I thought was way off didn't need as much correction as I thought.

It think this amp is going to wind up teaching me about how to bring out acoustic subtleties like more wood, a touch of sparkle, and so on that I have always avoided. I've avoided learning more about EQ because I do everything else in the writing/recording process, and if I obsessed about EQ every step of the way like I obsess about everything else, it would take me exponentially longer to finish songs and I'm already slow.

That said, this amp comes at a good time cause I just finished my most important recording, so now I can fill in the gaps in my EQ knowledge without worrying that learning these skills will be a distraction.

Absolutely! It's mentioned in the manual, and bears repeating, that a little eq goes a long way towards getting it right. This approach is well understood in the pro audio world. As a generality, the touring FOH guys who consistently got good FOH sound also were quite precise and at the same time minimalistic in their EQ approach.

Originally Posted by Martin Maniac

Check the owner's manual, in the last few pages there are diagrams of all the knobs that you can copy and draw in your favorite settings, so that you have a record of them and can revert to them easily.

Correct, these diagrams do not need any firmware updates, will not call home to the "operating system mother ship" for automatic updates, will not cease to function after said automatic update, nor will it require that you pay for system updates in t he future. Just like your acoustic guitar, it is what it is, will remain so for as long as you have it.

Hope this helps, and remember to have fun playing. Don't get so into your amp that you forget to just have a good time playing.

[Yamaha Man]

Thanks for clearing this all up for us !! Just like buying a new car, we want to know what's under the hood. From what I know about amps it looks like a terrific package to me. Another great feature is that it'll be here tomorrow !!!!!

The next project will be trying out all my various guitar pickups, looking for that elusive ultimate pairing. With the really strong EQ section, with a little tweaking, they should all sound good. Who knows, I may even bring it to my senior center gig on Wednesday, just to get a feel for what it would sound like in a live setting. Then direct in recordings...

[Groberts]

I need to spend some time with the EQ. When I demo'd at my local shop I tried to quickly turn some knobs to get a nice sound, but no matter what I did, it was midrange focused. So I'm going to take some time and see what's possible since this amp seems like such a well built professional acoustic amp. If all goes well, I'll demo at a local resort gig in a familiar setting.

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by Groberts

I need to spend some time with the EQ. When I demo'd at my local shop I tried to quickly turn some knobs to get a nice sound, but no matter what I did, it was midrange focused. So I'm going to take some time and see what's possible since this amp seems like such a well built professional acoustic amp. If all goes well, I'll demo at a local resort gig in a familiar setting.

The Rosette is heavily midrange focused by design, but the 2 sweepable mid controls allow for carefully dialing out offending hot spots. Mesa went into this amp with the intention of avoiding the typical "boom/sizzle" of many other amps, where a hyped bass, scooped mids and sizzly highs are the norm.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by MaurysMusic

The Rosette is heavily midrange focused by design, but the 2 sweepable mid controls allow for carefully dialing out offending hot spots. Mesa went into this amp with the intention of avoiding the typical "boom/sizzle" of many other amps, where a hyped bass, scooped mids and sizzly highs are the norm.

Great info to have. I may be barking up the wrong tree then. My Primary gigging acoustic is a Martin OMC-18E that sounds great through a Bose L1 Compact but it was very nasal through the Rosette. I am doing a local resort gig where a one piece combo is all I need (versus my Bose) hence my interest in the Rosette. But honestly, it was not giving me an inspiring sound. Call that Boom/sizzle or whatever ...but it wasn't working.

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by Groberts

Great info to have. I may be barking up the wrong tree then. My Primary gigging acoustic is a Martin OMC-18E that sounds great through a Bose L1 Compact but it was very nasal through the Rosette. I am doing a local resort gig where a one piece combo is all I need (versus my Bose) hence my interest in the Rosette. But honestly, it was not giving me an inspiring sound. Call that Boom/sizzle or whatever ...but it wasn't working.

You might like the results if you'd boost the Bass, Treble and lowest midrange Q on the Rosette. Since you can't lower the broad midrange, cranking the top and bottom could get you in the right direction. Nothing wrong (obviously) if you end up realizing that it's just not suited to your tastes.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Groberts

I need to spend some time with the EQ. When I demo'd at my local shop I tried to quickly turn some knobs to get a nice sound, but no matter what I did, it was midrange focused. So I'm going to take some time and see what's possible since this amp seems like such a well built professional acoustic amp. If all goes well, I'll demo at a local resort gig in a familiar setting.

Having been a Boogie guy since 1987, I can say that Boogies are very mid-focised amps. I am not surprised that that carries through to the Rosetta.

I can also say that Boogies just sound incredible when you set them right. They take a little more care to get setup just so, but once you get there it's a dream.

I'm anxious to try one of these..no one around here has one yet. I've been playing the same Mark IV since 1989-ish for my electric gigs and after 28 years that things still kicks. Built to last.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by Groberts

Great info to have. I may be barking up the wrong tree then. My Primary gigging acoustic is a Martin OMC-18E that sounds great through a Bose L1 Compact but it was very nasal through the Rosette. I am doing a local resort gig where a one piece combo is all I need (versus my Bose) hence my interest in the Rosette. But honestly, it was not giving me an inspiring sound. Call that Boom/sizzle or whatever ...but it wasn't working.

If you would e-mail or PM me, I will send you some additional information regarding eq that might help you get to where you want to be. There has been some confusion regarding the powerful sweep mid bands in the 4 band eq that I should be able to simplify.

Also, to clarify, there is no adjustable Q control on the Rosette EQ. I see that MaurysMusic is the second person to reference this Q control, I do not know where the information came from. If anybody knows, please let me know.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

If you would e-mail or PM me, I will send you some additional information regarding eq that might help you get to where you want to be. There has been some confusion regarding the powerful sweep mid bands in the 4 band eq that I should be able to simplify.

Also, to clarify, there is no adjustable Q control on the Rosette EQ. I see that MaurysMusic is the second person to reference this Q control, I do not know where the information came from. If anybody knows, please let me know.

Pm sent. Thanks!

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by troggg

Yeah, the vocal aspect is my biggest concern. I know that is people's biggest lament with AER. While I can't really imagine Schertler/Acus would be clearly better for guitar, the Jams and the Acus One 8 for instance definitely offer greatly flexibility for use as small PAs. And they certainly don't come up short in the guitar tone department.

And then there's that 12V phantom power thing ... I just received the Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina and haven't had a chance to check it out yet, but every time I've heard one live it really lured me in (Milk Carton Kids, for example). I was thinking of combining the plugged in sound with what the Edwina picked up ... seems promising in my mind at least.

I know you're very familiar with Schertler Jam and I've enjoyed your various reports on them. Have you any first hand experience with Acus?

Sorry no experience at all with Acus. But I have auditioned the Rosette more and I still feel that isn't in the same league as the Jam 400, it just doesn't have the low end that I feel out of the bigger boxed Schertler, and they really need to add phantom power to at least one channel as I haven't used a dynamic mic for vocals for the last 10 years. For a quiet soloist singer/songwriter I think it would be a good option, but for someone like me that goes from whisper quiet to full out blues boogie slide guitar it would come up short. They really need to offer an extension cabinet with it to make it suitable for what I do.

[Yamaha Man]

That's odd because I'm getting plenty of low end with my Rosette. Maybe it's your pick up or your guitar. I ran my Gretch thru the Rosette the other night and had plenty of low end.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by Martin Maniac

That's odd because I'm getting plenty of low end with my Rosette. Maybe it's your pick up or your guitar. I ran my Gretch thru the Rosette the other night and had plenty of low end.

The Rosette has a fine amount of low-end, but in comparison to the Schertler Jam 400, not so much, as the Jam 400 straddles the line between acoustic amp and PA speaker. The Jam 400 has 100 extra watts, but more importantly a bigger cabinet tuned to get the lows. I have a small porch board that I use with my Schertler that sounds great and the dominant frequency of that board is around 60hz, when I plugged it into the Rosette the speakers weren't capable of producing those lows, they just farted out. And in my show I use guitars tuned down in crazy open tunings that require a lot of low-end out of the speakers. Now I do some singer-songwriter type performances where I use my Schertler Jam 200 which has less wattage than the Rosette but I still feel has better voice reproduction qualities. But be sure I like the Rosette for what it is, especially the semi parametric EQ and adjustable reverb, it just doesn't fit my needs. And I spent enough time with it to know it doesn't. Hell, I was one of the first ones to try one out, and I even went back to the store a second time to make sure I tried it in all scenarios! And trust me, it's not my pickup or guitar, I'm even more anal about that stuff than I am amplifiers

[Yamaha Man]

Different strokes for different folks I suppose, but I play a standard E chord and the Rosette shakes the room to the point I don't want any more low end.

[troggg]

Originally Posted by Martin Maniac

Different strokes for different folks I suppose, but I play a standard E chord and the Rosette shakes the room to the point I don't want any more low end.

I think he's talking about for vocals, something to give them more "authority." As Rockabilly said, he likes it for guitar. There is of course a tradeoff for the Jam 400, it weighs a lot more.

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

If you would e-mail or PM me, I will send you some additional information regarding eq that might help you get to where you want to be. There has been some confusion regarding the powerful sweep mid bands in the 4 band eq that I should be able to simplify.

Also, to clarify, there is no adjustable Q control on the Rosette EQ. I see that MaurysMusic is the second person to reference this Q control, I do not know where the information came from. If anybody knows, please let me know.

Both midrange controls are sweepable - meaning that you can sweep the dial to center in on a specific midrange frequency, and then use its gain knob to lower or raise. Of course it's not one frequency, but a center Q, if that makes sense.