Trying to choose a slide (slide newbie)

[agfsteve]

Having recently bought a roundneck resonator (Gretsch Alligator Biscuit), I'm trying to learn slide guitar (basically delta blues style), so I need to find out what kind of slide I want.

The guitar came with a Dunlop No. 227 brass slide, which is 65mm long, with a wall thickness of 3mm, but it seems a bit too long, based on how I am trying to wear it, which is so that it allows my middle knuckle to flex, resulting in about 3/8 inch distance from fingertip to end of slide, which doesn't feel good, like the slide is wobbling around slightly. It also has a curvature that is designed to match the fretboard radius, but I think I would prefer something flat, although that could be because I have really bad technique right now.

I was thinking about buying maybe half a dozen cheap slides, probably some brass and some glass, in different thicknesses, and experimenting to find out what is comfortable, before potentially buying something more expensive. Does that sound like good idea?

I'm also not really sure which finger to try the slide on, but I am learning from a "Get Started On Bottleneck Slide Guitar" DVD, by Toby Walker, and he seems to do alright (to say the least!) with it on his ring finger, so that's what I'm going with.

Thanks!

[Mandobart]

I've got thin wall steel, aluminum, glass, bone and brass slides. The best tone comes from my heaviest brass slide. The wall is almost 1/4" thick.

[LyleGorch]

Diamond glass Ultimate slide.

[MC5C]

I've got a Dunlop glass slide, I wear it on my middle finger. I don't normally damp the strings behind the slide, when I play on my Dobro I like to have all the jangle jingle overtones possible, the more noise the better.

[LyleGorch]

I have an old Dunlap glass, found it a little weak.

[Bikewer]

As a cigar-box guitar builder, I’ve used a lot of slides, both commercial and home-made. I’ve also owned a conventional metal-bodied resonator.

I really like the traditional wine-bottle slides that I make... I have a foolproof method. Brass is a bit heavy for the typical 3 or 4-string cigar-box instruments, but sounds good on a regular guitar.
Glass seems to give a little more volume, for some reason.

I’ve also used copper tubing, steel tubing, and my pocketknife. (Forgot the slide one time...)

For making your own, get the straight-neck wine bottles they use to put up better reds. No screw-tops, please.... I score a line around the neck with a Dremel cut-off wheel and then just tap the neck against a board. Comes off nice and clean.
Smooth the edges with a sanding device of your choice.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by agfsteve

Having recently bought a roundneck resonator (Gretsch Alligator Biscuit), I'm trying to learn slide guitar (basically delta blues style), so I need to find out what kind of slide I want.

The guitar came with a Dunlop No. 227 brass slide, which is 65mm long, with a wall thickness of 3mm, but it seems a bit too long, based on how I am trying to wear it, which is so that it allows my middle knuckle to flex, resulting in about 3/8 inch distance from fingertip to end of slide, which doesn't feel good, like the slide is wobbling around slightly. It also has a curvature that is designed to match the fretboard radius, but I think I would prefer something flat, although that could be because I have really bad technique right now.

I was thinking about buying maybe half a dozen cheap slides, probably some brass and some glass, in different thicknesses, and experimenting to find out what is comfortable, before potentially buying something more expensive. Does that sound like good idea?

I'm also not really sure which finger to try the slide on, but I am learning from a "Get Started On Bottleneck Slide Guitar" DVD, by Toby Walker, and he seems to do alright (to say the least!) with it on his ring finger, so that's what I'm going with.

Thanks!

If you get into it, you will wind up with a drawer full of "experiments" that you moved past. The problem is that slides come in different lengths, wall thicknesses, internal thicknesses and materials. How you want to play effects what you like as well. But starting out, it is all about control.

As you note, the amount of material extending past your finger effects how easy it is to control. One question is how often you slide on all 6 strings. If Toby's lessons do a lot of that, a longer slide will help somewhat. But you might be surprised how seldom many players do the big Warner Brothers cartoon slide. Personally, I like mine to be just enough to cover all the strings if careful, but I do mostly slides with just a few strings at a time. Others mileage does vary. But starting out, as short as you can get away with is going to help with learning to control the slide.

Finding the best fit for your finger is the most important thing, starting out. Try visiting your local tool store (even better if you have one that sells used tools) and have a look at the deep spark plug sockets. Insert finger. The only problem is that the wrench socket at the end makes them tip heavy, but it is a good tool for sizing. Lowell George made a living using Sears Craftsman 11/16" sockets, but he was Lowell George and, well, nobody else is. If you are blessed with a guitar store with one of those little slide racks and 20 slides on it, go to town.

There are as many different materials used as you can think of. Glass. Brass. Copper. Bone. Antler. Ceramic. All will give you a different tone. One thing to consider is that mass equals stronger tone. But more mass makes control harder. So it is a balancing act. Thin little metal tubes will give a wimpy tone. So will those pyrex slides. Might be useful beginner options. I like the tone that I get from glass, but want fairly thick walls. I have slides from wine bottles, liqueur bottles, whiskey bottles, long neck Hennessy bottles. Some I have bought from a store, others I have hand cut in a glass shop with a diamond chop saw. I don't like having the bottleneck lip left, so it needs two cuts, and sometimes the bottleneck splits. But at least I got to drink the Cognac.

A year or so ago I came across a brass Rock Slide, with a bevel for your finger, internal tube that narrows and such, that I really like. The first metal slide that I've ever had much use for. Interestingly I subsequently also picked up their glass version that I found that I really didn't care for, and eventually sold it to a friend who did. Vive la difference.

Oh, fingers. You have as many options as you have fingers. I've never seen someone using thumb over slide, but now that I say it, it is probably inevitable. The people who I usually see using the slide on your index or bird fingers are usually electric players, or seldom fret notes. Most will use the ring finger or pinkie. When I started out, I began with the ring finger because I had no control with my pinkie. But I soon switched to learning to play with my pinkie because of interviews with a couple of slide players whom I admired -Cooder and Kottke - who used the pinkie which freed up the other fingers for fretting chords. More versatile, I thought. A tip for that is when using the slide I rest my ring finger on the slide, which helps control it, and mute with my other fingers if needed. Muting strings is a good skill to learn, even if you choose not to always use it. Better to be able to make the choice. But for now, do what Toby in his lessons tell you. After all, he is Toby, and, well, I am just some wanker on the internet...

Oh, a quick aside. Your header mentioned "slide" and it was pretty easy in this case to figure out what style of slide that you meant, but you might want to keep in mind that there are two styles of slide. One is played with a guitar held normally with your fretting hand wrapped around the neck, and the other is played with the guitar laying on your lap with the strings facing up. The first is often termed "bottleneck" even when using other types of slides, and the second is often called "lap steel." There are a lot of similarities that cross over in the two styles, but obviously, a lot of differences too. I've seen a lot of posts over the years that were not clear as to which style that they meant, and got a lot of replies as a result that did not make a whole lot of sense, nor answer the actual question. Not trying to be the grammar police here, but rather just offering a useful tip.

Jeeze, another short answer that turned into War and Peace. I think that I need to make breakfast...

Have fun. (final tip...)

TW

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by Bikewer

As a cigar-box guitar builder, I’ve used a lot of slides, both commercial and home-made. I’ve also owned a conventional metal-bodied resonator.

I really like the traditional wine-bottle slides that I make... I have a foolproof method. Brass is a bit heavy for the typical 3 or 4-string cigar-box instruments, but sounds good on a regular guitar.
Glass seems to give a little more volume, for some reason.

I’ve also used copper tubing, steel tubing, and my pocketknife. (Forgot the slide one time...)

For making your own, get the straight-neck wine bottles they use to put up better reds. No screw-tops, please.... I score a line around the neck with a Dremel cut-off wheel and then just tap the neck against a board. Comes off nice and clean.
Smooth the edges with a sanding device of your choice.

+1 - I also prefer a slide made out of a real bottle neck. If the inside of your slide is too large, try putting some medical tape on the inside.

I have tried thin walled brass, steel and glass. I don't like thin walled slides. I prefer the tone and fell of thick glass bottle necks. As already stated - it may take you a while to find the best slide for you.

As far as thin walled vs thick - I find that I can play slide with a thick walled slide without as my bend in my fretting hands wrist - a big plus in ergonomics IMO.

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

If you get into it, you will wind up with a drawer full of "experiments" that you moved past. The problem is that slides come in different lengths, wall thicknesses, internal thicknesses and materials. How you want to play effects what you like as well. But starting out, it is all about control.

As you note, the amount of material extending past your finger effects how easy it is to control. One question is how often you slide on all 6 strings. If Toby's lessons do a lot of that, a longer slide will help somewhat. But you might be surprised how seldom many players do the big Warner Brothers cartoon slide. Personally, I like mine to be just enough to cover all the strings if careful, but I do mostly slides with just a few strings at a time. Others mileage does vary. But starting out, as short as you can get away with is going to help with learning to control the slide.

Finding the best fit for your finger is the most important thing, starting out. Try visiting your local tool store (even better if you have one that sells used tools) and have a look at the deep spark plug sockets. Insert finger. The only problem is that the wrench socket at the end makes them tip heavy, but it is a good tool for sizing. Lowell George made a living using Sears Craftsman 11/16" sockets, but he was Lowell George and, well, nobody else is. If you are blessed with a guitar store with one of those little slide racks and 20 slides on it, go to town.

There are as many different materials used as you can think of. Glass. Brass. Copper. Bone. Antler. Ceramic. All will give you a different tone. One thing to consider is that mass equals stronger tone. But more mass makes control harder. So it is a balancing act. Thin little metal tubes will give a wimpy tone. So will those pyrex slides. Might be useful beginner options. I like the tone that I get from glass, but want fairly thick walls. I have slides from wine bottles, liqueur bottles, whiskey bottles, long neck Hennessy bottles. Some I have bought from a store, others I have hand cut in a glass shop with a diamond chop saw. I don't like having the bottleneck lip left, so it needs two cuts, and sometimes the bottleneck splits. But at least I got to drink the Cognac.

A year or so ago I came across a brass Rock Slide, with a bevel for your finger, internal tube that narrows and such, that I really like. The first metal slide that I've ever had much use for. Interestingly I subsequently also picked up their glass version that I found that I really didn't care for, and eventually sold it to a friend who did. Vive la difference.

Oh, fingers. You have as many options as you have fingers. I've never seen someone using thumb over slide, but now that I say it, it is probably inevitable. The people who I usually see using the slide on your index or bird fingers are usually electric players, or seldom fret notes. Most will use the ring finger or pinkie. When I started out, I began with the ring finger because I had no control with my pinkie. But I soon switched to learning to play with my pinkie because of interviews with a couple of slide players whom I admired -Cooder and Kottke - who used the pinkie which freed up the other fingers for fretting chords. More versatile, I thought. A tip for that is when using the slide I rest my ring finger on the slide, which helps control it, and mute with my other fingers if needed. Muting strings is a good skill to learn, even if you choose not to always use it. Better to be able to make the choice. But for now, do what Toby in his lessons tell you. After all, he is Toby, and, well, I am just some wanker on the internet...

Oh, a quick aside. Your header mentioned "slide" and it was pretty easy in this case to figure out what style of slide that you meant, but you might want to keep in mind that there are two styles of slide. One is played with a guitar held normally with your fretting hand wrapped around the neck, and the other is played with the guitar laying on your lap with the strings facing up. The first is often termed "bottleneck" even when using other types of slides, and the second is often called "lap steel." There are a lot of similarities that cross over in the two styles, but obviously, a lot of differences too. I've seen a lot of posts over the years that were not clear as to which style that they meant, and got a lot of replies as a result that did not make a whole lot of sense, nor answer the actual question. Not trying to be the grammar police here, but rather just offering a useful tip.

Jeeze, another short answer that turned into War and Peace. I think that I need to make breakfast...

Have fun. (final tip...)

TW

Thanks so much for such a comprehensive reply.

There is no music shop near me. The closest Guitar Center is nearly two hours away, and other music shops that I am aware of within similar driving time are smaller, and not particularly focused on guitar, so I don't think I will be able to try before buying.

So yes, I think I need to focus on fit and feel for a beginner right now. I have selected a few cheaper slides from Sweetwater, so I'll do my experimenting with those.

I'm going to start with the slide on my ring finger because of being able to control it better, like you said, and I also like the idea of being able to use the pinkie to play a fret or two up the neck, in front of the slide, which is what Toby does, although trying that right now mostly makes the slide crash into the strings. Maybe as I get better I'll end up switching to the pinkie, but if the slide is a good fit on my ring finger, then it will certainly be looser on my pinkie.

I forgot that the term "bottleneck slide" meant "normal" playing, and differentiates between that and lap steel. I made sure to mention that my guitar was a roundneck, but good to know--if I can't walk the walk yet, I should at least be able to talk the talk, LOL.

Thanks again.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by agfsteve

Thanks so much for such a comprehensive reply.

There is no music shop near me. The closest Guitar Center is nearly two hours away, and other music shops that I am aware of within similar driving time are smaller, and not particularly focused on guitar, so I don't think I will be able to try before buying.

So yes, I think I need to focus on fit and feel for a beginner right now. I have selected a few cheaper slides from Sweetwater, so I'll do my experimenting with those.

I'm going to start with the slide on my ring finger because of being able to control it better, like you said, and I also like the idea of being able to use the pinkie to play a fret or two up the neck, in front of the slide, which is what Toby does, although trying that right now mostly makes the slide crash into the strings. Maybe as I get better I'll end up switching to the pinkie, but if the slide is a good fit on my ring finger, then it will certainly be looser on my pinkie.

I forgot that the term "bottleneck slide" meant "normal" playing, and differentiates between that and lap steel. I made sure to mention that my guitar was a roundneck, but good to know--if I can't walk the walk yet, I should at least be able to talk the talk, LOL.

Thanks again.

No worries, my pleasure. I saw your post in that window between the first cup of coffee and needing to get some work done.

There are a lot of trade offs. As you say, using the ring finger allows fretting in front of the slide. Pinkie allows easier chording when not using it. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. I do find it easier to swing the pinkie-laden slide up out of the way. There is no wrong answer. You will make choices as you go.

Given your location problem (You think that you are remote? I lived in Anchorage for 20 years. You have a 2 hour drive? I had a 3 hour plane flight... <G>) Anyway, I more strongly recommend the deep socket trick. That will give you an internal diameter for when you order from someone. Although, as another poster noted, you can always line the inside with athletic tape to make it tighter, so veer toward loose.

Everybody thwaks the guitar neck with the slide. Heck, I still do it, just not as often as I once did...

Have fun

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by agfsteve

Thanks so much for such a comprehensive reply.

There is no music shop near me. The closest Guitar Center is nearly two hours away, and other music shops that I am aware of within similar driving time are smaller, and not particularly focused on guitar, so I don't think I will be able to try before buying.

So yes, I think I need to focus on fit and feel for a beginner right now. I have selected a few cheaper slides from Sweetwater, so I'll do my experimenting with those.

I'm going to start with the slide on my ring finger because of being able to control it better, like you said, and I also like the idea of being able to use the pinkie to play a fret or two up the neck, in front of the slide, which is what Toby does, although trying that right now mostly makes the slide crash into the strings. Maybe as I get better I'll end up switching to the pinkie, but if the slide is a good fit on my ring finger, then it will certainly be looser on my pinkie.

I forgot that the term "bottleneck slide" meant "normal" playing, and differentiates between that and lap steel. I made sure to mention that my guitar was a roundneck, but good to know--if I can't walk the walk yet, I should at least be able to talk the talk, LOL.

Thanks again.

Make the switch to your pinkie now, you'll be glad later on (IMHO).

[stanron]

There is a kind of slide where the slide is attached to a loose fitting ring. It is worn on the little finger. With your hand palm up, the slide slips to the back of the finger. With the palm facing down the slide falls into the playing position. A slight bend of the little finger keeps it in the playing position.

With a little practice it is easy to switch between normal playing and slide playing and back again.

I always made these for myself. The first lot were made from half round section brass soldered to rings made from strips cut from nickel plated copper ash trays. More recent versions were made with an 'L' shaped cut in a length of one inch galvanised pipe. Both types worked best with flat fretboards but could have had a curve bent into them.

I can't remember how many of these I made over the years. All but one was lost, or stolen.

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Make the switch to your pinkie now, you'll be glad later on (IMHO).

Interesting. I went ahead and ordered a few slides from Sweetwater, so when they get here I think I'll give the pinkie another go. The main reason I'm using my ring finger is because the slide that came with my resonator fits better on that finger.

[agfsteve]

Regarding the use of medical / athletic tape on the inside of the slide, how do you get it in there? Do you just cut a tiny strip and get it in there as far as you can? Do you put the tape in length-wise, like a thin strip that is the length of the slide? Or do you somehow try to get it in there around the inside circumference?--which sounds impossible to do.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by agfsteve

Regarding the use of medical / athletic tape on the inside of the slide, how do you get it in there? Do you just cut a tiny strip and get it in there as far as you can? Do you put the tape in length-wise, like a thin strip that is the length of the slide? Or do you somehow try to get it in there around the inside circumference?--which sounds impossible to do.

I cut thin strips and build them from the palm side first. Usually one at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock does the trick. Not only do they make it fit better, it can prevent the slide from "walking" down your finger which can happen easily if you use a lot of Blues shuffles. I do it from both ends, usually.

I started playing slide on either on my middle or ring finger and finally settled on my pinkie. I'm certainly no Toby Walker though. I suspect you'll try many ways of playing before the right one just kind of "clicks".