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Old 02-16-2017, 08:00 AM
hat hat is offline
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Default Ammonia fuming wood?

A question for the builders/woodworkers/luthiers on the forum here. I have been reading about a process that uses ammonia to darken the color on high tannin woods. The traditional use is by fuming, but it seems you can just brush the ammonia on the wood and achieve similar results. I was wondering if anyone here has tried this? I've used acid washes ( aquafortis) on curly maple, but not tried the ammonia fuming process.
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:31 AM
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I just got potassium permanganate for this exact reason - haven't tried it yet so I cannot comment/advise but you might want to look up that idea.
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:41 AM
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I've tried it on some of the oak guitars I've made and the regular household ammonia just isn't strong enough. IT gave it a nice look but not quite as dark as I expected. What does work however is an iron rich solution. If you boil a piece of 0000 steel wool in some white vinegar for a couple minutes then put the whole thing in a Ball jar for a few days you will make an excellent brush on stain.

In this image you see top left is a fumed piece of oak, on the top right is the untreated oak and the bottom rod like piece was dipped in solution. It's totally black. I made fretboards and bridges out of oak that look like ebony it's so black.

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Old 02-16-2017, 08:47 AM
ericmeyer4 ericmeyer4 is offline
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redir, you boil the steel wool? I've always just shredded it by hand and threw it in the vinegar for a couple of days. Is there an advantage to boiling it?
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericmeyer4 View Post
redir, you boil the steel wool? I've always just shredded it by hand and threw it in the vinegar for a couple of days. Is there an advantage to boiling it?
It just makes it dissolve a lot faster that's all. Makes your house smell like salad dressing too
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:50 AM
ericmeyer4 ericmeyer4 is offline
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It just makes it dissolve a lot faster that's all. Makes your house smell like salad dressing too
Makes total sense! I might have to try that next time around.
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:28 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Furniture builders who fume oak professionally use 18% ammonia. Household ammonia is universally reported to not work effectively. It's the same stuff used in the blueprint making process and is available but you have to look for it.

Do note that proper fuming and staining of oak are two entirely different looks.
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Old 02-16-2017, 12:56 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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From the Wikipedia entry:

Fuming has some inconvenient safety issues. The solution of ammonium hydroxide used is much stronger (26% to 30%) than in household ammonia and is corrosive. The fuming must be done in an enclosed sealed chamber. Ammonia splashes can burn skin and the fumes can cause burns to eyes and lungs. Operators need to wear gas masks, gloves and eye protection.
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:54 PM
Alan Carruth Alan Carruth is offline
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I did fume an oak guitar once with some used blueprinter's ammonia, and it worked nicely. The stuff is strong, alright. A neighbor was almost killed once when she dropped a gallon glass bottle of it in the store room when the door was closed. She barely made it out.

Iron and acetic acid react to form ferric acetate. In the presence of tannin this reacts to produce a stable black iron oxide in the wood. This is the traditional, and still one of the best, black wood stains. It's not at all the same thing as you get from fuming.
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazool View Post
I just got potassium permanganate for this exact reason - haven't tried it yet so I cannot comment/advise but you might want to look up that idea.
I hope you are using a "very" dilute solution potassium permanganate. It will make a purple solution, but used on wood, the would will turn wood brown because the p.m. is actually oxidizing the wood, i.e., chemically burning it. I'm not sure how good that is for the wood long term, but it will certainly color it brown and make it look aged.

Maybe there other stains that would work as well as p.m.

BTW, you need to be very careful and use safety precautions when using concentrated p.m.
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:58 AM
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Some of the Irish flute makers and recorder makers use Miss Clairol.
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:44 AM
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Some of the Irish flute makers and recorder makers use Miss Clairol.
Huh, wha?!? I've never heard of hair dyes used for wood, but with the variety of colors and easy accessibilty to the material, its a fascinating idea - any more details? Don't you need to rinse well, which introduces a bunch of other issues?
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Old 02-19-2017, 01:25 AM
tahoeguitar tahoeguitar is offline
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When potassium permanganate dries out it becomes explosive (or so I was told) We used to have some where I worked for use in testing dissolved solids in boiler water. My boss told me to never ever let it dry out. Just sayin... don't stick it in the fridge and forget about it.
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