Strings North of the nut

KingCavalier · #1 02-03-2016, 11:46 AM

Hi all,

I noticed on my last build that the strings north of the nut, that is to say between the nut and the tuners ring while I'm playing. I play with a very heavy hand and do a lot of fast stops and damping. The ring during the stops sounds terrible. I placed a piece of felt between the strings and the headstock at the nut and the ringing did stop. I'm not sure why this happens and what to do in the future to avoid the issue.

Here's some info about the build.

The neck is laminated Sapele, Maple and Rosewood. Also, I slipped and set my jig a little off. The angle of the headstock wound up around 15 degrees, not the 14 degrees I would have liked.

Any help is appreciated.

SA

Alan Carruth · #2 02-03-2016, 01:08 PM

The 'back strings' between the nut and tuner vibrate the same way as the played part between the nut and saddle. Just as the overtones produced by playing one string, say your low E on the fifth fret, can get another, in this case the A string tuned to that pitch, vibrating, any note you play that has energy in a pitch the back string wants to vibrate at can get it going. In extreme cases this can alter the timbre or sustain of the note you're playing, and can also ring on after you've stopped playing that note, which is a nuisance.

The remedies for this are to change the lengths of the back strings to avoid the problem, or to damp them as you have done. It's hard to do much about the back string lengths once the guitar is built, so what you've got is about the best solution you're likely to find.

Ned Milburn · #3 02-03-2016, 04:04 PM

What Alan said.

But, if it is a case of sympathetic vibration of an exact match to one of the guitar's harmonics, you could TRY changing the width of the TOP of the nut. For example, as you likely know, some nuts have a consistent width/thickness (front to back) from bottom to top. Others, and this is the way I make my guitar nuts, are tapered from the HS lamination to the top surface. If yours is even thickness, you could try tapering the same nut. If it is tapered, you could try making another one that is square. Not guaranteed to give you results you want, but perhaps worth a try.

KingCavalier · #4 02-06-2016, 09:02 AM

Thanks for the help guys. I checked the "back string" length (thanks Alan) and they are very close to the Martin specs I have used on other builds. I've used this new style of Headstock on 2 other Guitars and they don't have the same issue. Ned, I do bevel the nuts like you mentioned but I'm not sure about the possibility of a sympathetic vibration, to my ear all seems well. Other than a tuner and my ear I don't have any tools to check it further.

The only other things I can think of is the angle of the Headstock and the laminated neck, it's very heavy and dense.

Thanks again.

SA

Alan Carruth · #5 02-06-2016, 06:30 PM

Strings only reverberate when their pitch agrees EXACTLY with the driving signal. Thus, as Ned says, even very small changes can affect the degree to which this is a problem. The neck angle or hardness won't alter this.

rogthefrog · #6 02-06-2016, 06:46 PM

This is normal. I wrap them in some cotton fabric on most of my guitars.

tadol · #7 02-06-2016, 06:51 PM

I have the same problem (although it isn't really a problem) with my new Sexauer - it is only the D and G strings (the longest) I think, because the others are so short the frequency is probably far outside my hearing range. Even storing my capo up and behind the nut kills it, so I am trying to find a nice thick block of dark brown felt to attach to the adjuster cover that'll just touch those and it won't be a problem again. It took me a while to figure it out, but the solution is gonna be simple. I attribute it to a highly responsive guitar - ;-)

rogthefrog · #8 02-06-2016, 06:52 PM

Antoine Dufour uses a huge bandana for this.

KingCavalier · #9 02-10-2016, 03:01 PM

Thanks for the insight everyone.

I'm very happy to hear other Guitars do the same thing.
I've tried a few different things to try and dampen the ringing
and I notice they all affect the overall tone in one way or another.

Mostly, I like the way the Guitar sounds with out any of them.
I'm going to learn to live with it and just leave well enough alone.

Thanks again.

SA

skido13 · #10 02-11-2016, 11:02 PM

You'll see on some guitars a clip which spans two strings to keep them from rubbing each other or a tuner post due to alignment of the strings north of the nut. Just a flat piece of metal curled at each side to hook the strings. Such a device also breaks up transfer of harmonics.

murrmac123 · #11 02-12-2016, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skido13

You'll see on some guitars a clip which spans two strings to keep them from rubbing each other or a tuner post due to alignment of the strings north of the nut. Just a flat piece of metal curled at each side to hook the strings. Such a device also breaks up transfer of harmonics.

Are you referring to a string tree, as found on Fender electric guitars?

The function of the string tree on Strats and Teles, and other guitars with six-on-a-side tuners, is more to ensure an adequate break angle from the nut to the tuner on the first four strings, rather than to prevent any unwanted sympathetic vibration, although they may well be helpful in doing that as well, even if it isn't their primary function.