Pickup Comparison: Shure Mic, LR Baggs Anthem, JME Ultra Tonic

[Christopher Cozad]

I finally got around to installing one of the Ultra Tonic pickups I purchased from James May Engineering a couple of months ago. James is also a partner in Audio Sprockets, creators of the ToneDexter.

For those who may be interested, I detail the installation process in an article on my website, The Ultra Tonic Pickup.

If you are unfamiliar with this new passive pickup, think K&K Pure Mini, with an extra disc to double-up on the (typically quiet) 1st string (and it actually works!), and a second extra disc that works in conjunction with a small circuit board permanently attached to the endpin jack to provide for user-configurable feedback suppression (that actually works!).

The most notorious feedback-prone guitar I own is my 1976 Guild F-512. It is a jumbo defier of all things amplified. It laughs at me when I think I am going to outfit it with an acceptable pickup system that will provide good string-to-string balance (Ha!), articulate note output instead of muddy overtones (Ha HA!), and be able to actually turn the volume up without sending the occupants of the building running, covering their their ears (HA HA HA!).

I recorded my 12 string using only a Shure KSM141 microphone. I re-recorded that same musical piece using the trusty LR Baggs Anthem pickup that I had installed years earlier (when they first came out). The Anthem combines an UST with a soundboard-mounted near-field microphone. An onboard preamplifier gives the UST the responsibility for handling the (otherwise boomy) lower frequencies, while the mids and highs are assigned to the microphone. It is one of the few pickups I could get a reasonable volume with in a large venue, but not without the dreaded piezo quack. The third clip is recorded using the Ultra Tonic pickup, the signal ran through an Audio Sprockets ToneDexter trained with that same Shure KSM141 microphone. See what you think:

[guitaniac]

As a recording with that style of play, I tend to prefer the Anthem SL. It has more bass on that descending line. For live performance, I expect the Ultra Tonic might be less feedback prone.

How did you work around the fact that the Tru Mic and the Ultra Tonic transducers would typically be affixed in the same spot - directly under the saddle?

[Christopher Cozad]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

How did you work around the fact that the Tru Mic and the Ultra Tonic transducers would typically be affixed in the same spot - directly under the saddle?

Don't hate me...I removed the Anthem.

;~}

[SpruceTop]

The Ultra Tonic/ToneDexter combination sounds more like the first recording of just the mic, and I personally prefer this natural-sounding tone. The Anthem system sounds bigger and more powerful in the bass which is what some players want but in a live venue may be more subject to feedback than your new Ultra Tonic/ToneDexter combo. Thanks for sharing!

[varmonter]

Do you have to use a tone generator and
This disc exciter to install this pup?
James may .com says you need these extra
Items in order to install??

[Christopher Cozad]

Originally Posted by varmonter

Do you have to use a tone generator and
This disc exciter to install this pup?
James may .com says you need these extra
Items in order to install??

Technically, you do not need these item to install the pickup, as the discs are simply positioned and glued in place just like a K&K, but these tools are necessary to set the onboard feedback suppression. You need to have installed the discs to configure the feedback suppression, which is controlled by the small circuit board attached to the endpin jack. So, with the discs glued (or taped) in place, and the endpin jack laying outside the sound hole for access, you use the electronic tools to custom configure your pickup.

I hadn't had the chance before today to test that very feature in a live setting. I used the pickup in conjunction with the ToneDexter. All the PA supplied was reverb. After todays performance (and test on unwitting subjects) I am even more thrilled with this thing. I was able to increase the volume to impressively uncomfortable levels and not only have excellent feedback control, but that muddy low end (if you've ever stuck a mic or SBT's inside a 12 string you'll know what I'm referring to) was GONE! The same issues responsible for feedback are responsible for that murky, muddy output. To hear a clean crisp signal at high volume without howl (and no soundman) was a first for me!

I happen to have an early version of the pickup that shipped with a small switch. I was able to simply turn the suppression ON and OFF, which let me test the feature. I will not need this switch in the future, as the point was proven to me - I both need and want the suppression feature.

So will you. You can run a free tone generator app off a computer or even a smartphone, but you need an exciter (to output the tone from the tone generator) and a millivolt meter (to read the output from the endpin jack BEFORE you install it). You set a series of DIP switches based on those readings and you enter a whole new era of sound.

If you are ever in my neck of the woods, just swing by. I have all the goodies in my shop. ;~}

[guitaniac]

The Ultra Tonic seems like a good solution for the folks who need good feedback rejection but feel that a UST (especially the Baggs Element UST) compromises the instrument's acoustic tone.

Please let us know how the Ultra Tonic compares to the Anthem system with respect to feedback susceptibility. With my own Anthem SL rig, I need to EQ down a good deal of low mids and some bass to get a balanced tone which rejects feedback decently well.

[Christopher Cozad]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

...Please let us know how the Ultra Tonic compares to the Anthem system with respect to feedback susceptibility. With my own Anthem SL rig, I need to EQ down a good deal of low mids and some bass to get a balanced tone which rejects feedback decently well.

I believe I understand, as I am well familiar with the LR Baggs Anthem anti-feedback finessing process, since the Anthem has been my "go to" pickup for live performances in my jumbo guitars for many years (since they came out).

I just performed in a small venue for Christmas through my Bose L1 Model II. My guitar with the Ultra Tonic pickup was routed through a ToneDexter, then into the Bose ToneMatch Audio Engine (mixer) set to FLAT EQ, but with tons of Reverb, and amplified through the Bose L1 Model II with the B1 Bass Module (sub woofer). A perfect feedback opportunity.

My 12 string has a resonant frequency of approx. 100Hz (G on the bass string(s)). Using the environment described above (flat EQ, cavernous reverb), there is no possibility of getting the Anthem to comfortable listening levels in a small venue without that 100 Hz howl.

For the first time in 40 years, replacing the Anthem with the Ultra Tonic (with feedback suppression engaged), ran through the ToneDexter, I cranked the volume. There was NO feedback and I was at uncomfortably loud volumes (for this venue, at least) with a crystal clear amplified acoustic 12 string. Almost unbelievable, even for me.

I will continue to test this pickup and keep you posted...

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Christopher Cozad

I believe I understand, as I am well familiar with the LR Baggs Anthem anti-feedback finessing process, since the Anthem has been my "go to" pickup for live performances in my jumbo guitars for many years (since they came out).

I just performed in a small venue for Christmas through my Bose L1 Model II. My guitar with the Ultra Tonic pickup was routed through a ToneDexter, then into the Bose ToneMatch Audio Engine (mixer) set to FLAT EQ, but with tons of Reverb, and amplified through the Bose L1 Model II with the B1 Bass Module (sub woofer). A perfect feedback opportunity.

My 12 string has a resonant frequency of approx. 100Hz (G on the bass string(s)). Using the environment described above (flat EQ, cavernous reverb), there is no possibility of getting the Anthem to comfortable listening levels in a small venue without that 100 Hz howl.

For the first time in 40 years, replacing the Anthem with the Ultra Tonic (with feedback suppression engaged), ran through the ToneDexter, I cranked the volume. There was NO feedback and I was at uncomfortably loud volumes (for this venue, at least) with a crystal clear amplified acoustic 12 string. Almost unbelievable, even for me.

I will continue to test this pickup and keep you posted...

Very cool. What do you mean by the phrase "with feedback suppression engaged"? Does that mean that the user can switch the phase cancellation circuitry on or off as desired? That would be an informative experiment indeed - to observe how much difference the phase cancellation makes.

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by Christopher Cozad

Technically, you do not need these item to install the pickup, as the discs are simply positioned and glued in place just like a K&K, but these tools are necessary to set the onboard feedback suppression. You need to have installed the discs to configure the feedback suppression, which is controlled by the small circuit board attached to the endpin jack. So, with the discs glued (or taped) in place, and the endpin jack laying outside the sound hole for access, you use the electronic tools to custom configure your pickup.

I hadn't had the chance before today to test that very feature in a live setting. I used the pickup in conjunction with the ToneDexter. All the PA supplied was reverb. After todays performance (and test on unwitting subjects) I am even more thrilled with this thing. I was able to increase the volume to impressively uncomfortable levels and not only have excellent feedback control, but that muddy low end (if you've ever stuck a mic or SBT's inside a 12 string you'll know what I'm referring to) was GONE! The same issues responsible for feedback are responsible for that murky, muddy output. To hear a clean crisp signal at high volume without howl (and no soundman) was a first for me!

I happen to have an early version of the pickup that shipped with a small switch. I was able to simply turn the suppression ON and OFF, which let me test the feature. I will not need this switch in the future, as the point was proven to me - I both need and want the suppression feature.

So will you. You can run a free tone generator app off a computer or even a smartphone, but you need an exciter (to output the tone from the tone generator) and a millivolt meter (to read the output from the endpin jack BEFORE you install it). You set a series of DIP switches based on those readings and you enter a whole new era of sound.

If you are ever in my neck of the woods, just swing by. I have all the goodies in my shop. ;~}

Does the tonedexter also accomplish this phase canceling
Feedback suppression if desired. This speaker (exciter tool)
Supplied by jme is a one time end user product
For 69 bucks. A core charge would seem a good
Marketing scheme on the part of jme to sell more
Pups. Return the speaker and get 59 dollars
back...??
I understand as a luthier you will be installing
Multiples of this system over time so this is a one
time deduction for you. As an end user not so.
I have relatives in Burlington NC . Once every Couple of years we get down your way..
last year we met in Asheville. Great music scene there.
Thanks for sharing all this info. Really interesting concept here.

[Christopher Cozad]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Very cool. What do you mean by the phrase "with feedback suppression engaged"? Does that mean that the user can switch the phase cancellation circuitry on or off as desired? That would be an informative experiment indeed - to observe how much difference the phase cancellation makes.

Indeed. There is a shorting jumper on the circuit board that allows for that (ON, OFF, or SWITCHED). A switch can be added and mounted to the sound hole (this is the approach I took with my first install, as I didn't want to reach in and out of the guitar) for real-time, ON/OFF testing. It is very cool for testing and proving purposes, though I will no longer be needing it, as I am convinced. I will just be setting the shorting jumper to permanently ON.

I took the time (after gluing in the pickup discs) to identify the primary resonant frequency of my guitar (using a tone generator, exciter, and voltage meter), which happened to be 100Hz on my 12 string. I then used that frequency in conjunction with the 12 DIP switches to hunt down the best position for mixing in the (larger) suppression disc with the main (smaller) discs, so as to minimize many of the potential resonances of the soundboard, not merely that primary resonant frequency. The results are so impressive.

[martingitdave]

Christopher, thank you for taking the time to document your endeavors on AGF and your blog. It’s greatly appreciated.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Christopher Cozad

Indeed. There is a shorting jumper on the circuit board that allows for that (ON, OFF, or SWITCHED). A switch can be added and mounted to the sound hole (this is the approach I took with my first install, as I didn't want to reach in and out of the guitar) for real-time, ON/OFF testing. It is very cool for testing and proving purposes, though I will no longer be needing it, as I am convinced. I will just be setting the shorting jumper to permanently ON.

I took the time (after gluing in the pickup discs) to identify the primary resonant frequency of my guitar (using a tone generator, exciter, and voltage meter), which happened to be 100Hz on my 12 string. I then used that frequency in conjunction with the 12 DIP switches to hunt down the best position for mixing in the (larger) suppression disc with the main (smaller) discs, so as to minimize many of the potential resonances of the soundboard, not merely that primary resonant frequency. The results are so impressive.

I'm thinking that the Ultra Tonic might record better with the feedback suppression off, since you don't have the guitar top reacting to speaker sound in that circumstance. In any event, its very cool that the feedback suppression can be switched on and off. I'd love to be able to do that with the Barbera Soloist in one of my guitars, if only to observe the difference.

[Gordon Currie]

Wow. Very nice comparison. The differences aren't huge which make comparison more meaningful to me.

The Anthem initially sounded good, but there is a tizziness to the high treble and a weird unstable shimmer that quickly bothered me to the point of wanting to turn it off.

The JME/ToneDexter initially sounded a little dull, but there is NO tizziness or shimmer - the high end sounds like the KSM and it is stable and consistent. I would probably add a touch of hi shelf at 10K to better match the miked version.

[Vancebo]

This is a really cool and powerful concept. I need to have someone explain something to me. What is the difference between the onboard notch filter on the Ultra Tonic and the notch filter on a Preamp like the Venue, Alix and other brands? I get it that you will have a set it and forget it solution at the point of origin which is really cool, but do they do the same thing?