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  #1  
Old 04-19-2009, 07:54 PM
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Kitchen Guitars Kitchen Guitars is offline
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Default How rare is a Martin Model 5 Mandolin?

I found one that needs a bridge, a top crack repair, needs some MOP and maybe the back bowl needs some work. Couldn't come to terms with the fella.
I just want to make sure I am not passing up the ultimate Martin for way less than a k
It looked like this one on the left with the solid metal engraved back
http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/d/rdevelli...%205%20alt.htm
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Old 04-19-2009, 07:56 PM
HHP HHP is offline
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Few Martin mandolins bring a lot of interest or command high prices. The bowl back are generally the least desirable, the E model the most in demand.
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:12 PM
leeasam leeasam is offline
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Daves guitar shop has a 1923 Martin Style A in excellent condition for sale.

go to http://www.davesguitar.com/products.html?13256 clcik on the Martin link above the nscroll down. it is the last thing in the Martin list. Also under a k.
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:13 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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This is one of the roundback Martin mandolins, right? What we called "taterbugs" back home in Missouri.

I started playing mandolin a couple of years before I ever took up guitar, and I've played a number of Martin mandolins along the way. I've seen them in three body styles: the roundback Neapolitan style, the flat top and back model that they ostensibly still make, and the carved archtop and arched back models, made in direct imitation of the innovations that Gibson introduced to mandolin construction.

Of those body styles, the only one that I personally care for is the rarest of the three, the carved archtop Martin mandolins.

The roundback Martins are nice enough, but don't have a whole lot of utility as modern player's instruments. Even though they typically display exquisite workmanship and sometimes jawdroppingly gorgeous Brazilian rosewood for the back bowl, unless you're playing classical mandolin or traditional Italian folk tunes on them they're not the best musical choice you can make.

The flatback Martin mandolins (of which all I've seen and played have been mahogany with spruce tops) are nicely made, but most of the people who actually play them seem to be guitarists seconding on mandolin. I've never met a serious mandolin player who used a Martin flatback mandolin as his main instrument.

So that leaves the Martin archtop mandolins, which so far as I can tell isn't what you're asking about. Those are fairly rare birds, but they're nice instruments.

Anyway, no, if the Martin mandolin in question is a bowlback taterbug, I sure wouldn't lose any sleep over missing out on it, not if getting a useful, versatile utility instrument is your goal.

Short version: Martin bowlback and flatback mandolins can often be surprisingly inexpensive, but that reflects their musical usefulness to and desirability among most modern mandolinists. Martin archtop mandolins are more sought-after, and their market value reflects that.

Hope this helps.


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Old 04-19-2009, 08:29 PM
Tony Burns Tony Burns is offline
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Value on bowl backs depends on a few things- rarity and condition .if the condition is poor - its a wall hanger -might be costly to repair -ive put a few of these back together ( i collect bowl backs sort of ) many have a liner that rips and its impossible to make look perfect . If you really like it and the price is a few hundred Id say go for it - but if your talking a thou- id say no way Jose ! i own a Washburn model 175 which is way rarer and believe me no one is busting my doors down .Bowl backs are very common ( thou beautiful ) their more of an old country thing!
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:44 PM
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I saw a braz-bowl back on the bay, went for under a hundred, with brazilian rosewood. They are out there. Cold Mountain ,the movie, has a guy playing one, nice little tune.
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Old 04-20-2009, 03:25 AM
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The age, engraving, ivory and tortiose shell and the old old Martin markings had me. The only three bowlbacked Martin model 5 I could find on the net were in museums so I wanted to make sure I wasn't walking away from an ultra rare item. Thanks for the imput guys
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Old 04-20-2009, 03:21 PM
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devellis devellis is offline
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The website with the Martin Style 5 that you gave is mine. Actually, bowlback mandolins have a very enthusiastic following, just not so much in America. Classical musicians are the only substantial group in the USA that favor bowlbacks. The Style 5 is one of the top models Martin made and one of the fanciest instruments of any type to have come from the Martin factory. Martin and Vega bowlbacks are among the most respected bowlbacks made in this country. There were scads of low-quality instruments produced in the late 19th and early 20th century.

Having said all that, a bowlback isn't for everyone. I have a lot of interest in high-quality vintage American mandolins and that category isn't fully represented without a nice bowlback. But I don't play it much. Mine was in very good shape, needing only a tuner button and tailpiece cover when I got it. The pearl inlay on the neck is stunning and the overal materials and construction quality is what you'd expect in a pre-war martin instrument.

If you want the voice of a bowlback, a nice Martin is a good choice. In terms of value, the market is small. If you find a buyer who wants one and you have one in good shape to offer, some serious money can change hands. But those opportunities don't come around all that often and buying as an investment is questionable. Over at Mandolin Cafe', a mandolin like this gets a fair amount of respect. Most people in the know would agree that the musical value of these instruments surpasses their cash value. That is, they cost less than they're worth as musical tools, if it's a tool you want. Repairs can be costly and difficult to arrange, which lowers their value.

If I were in the market for a high-end American bowlback, I'd want one that was currently in great shape or that could be restored to great shape. One with a badly slipped neck joint (the position of the bridge required for proper intonation can be a give-away) isn't much of a deal even at a bargain price. Also, bowl repairs other than relatively trivial cracks can be a bear. Not many folks out there know how to work on these critters.

So, I'd probably give some thought to what your motives are. If you feel that you could do the work and would like to have a nice bowlback, this would fit the bill. If you think you'll be able to triple your money reselling it in a year, that's probably unlikely. If it's really cheap and you're a fan of beautiful objects, well maybe.
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Last edited by devellis; 04-20-2009 at 04:56 PM. Reason: corrected typos
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Old 04-20-2009, 03:44 PM
BlackHeart BlackHeart is offline
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I think with real brazilian, it would be cool to take a $65.00 mano, and make a lute out of it, or a 'lute style' old style mando, because the bowl is already done.Replace the top, neck, like an old lute. A mini!
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Old 04-20-2009, 04:54 PM
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Necks aren't so easily swapped out on bowlbacks. Therre isn't a neck joint. The end of the neck is sort of a knob to which the ribs attach. So, take off the neck and there's noting holding the ribs in place. A few people have begun working on bowlbacks but it's a steep learning curve. Structural issues are not for do-it-yourselfers.
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:24 PM
raulb raulb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
The flatback Martin mandolins (of which all I've seen and played have been mahogany with spruce tops) are nicely made, but most of the people who actually play them seem to be guitarists seconding on mandolin. I've never met a serious mandolin player who used a Martin flatback mandolin as his main instrument.
Wade, you need to meet me then. I consider myself a mando player who also plays a guitar, and I have a flat back A-style Martin.

BTW, I paid $500 for it in the mid-80s and it is still worth $500.
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Old 04-20-2009, 07:09 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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After I wrote:

Quote:
The flatback Martin mandolins (of which all I've seen and played have been mahogany with spruce tops) are nicely made, but most of the people who actually play them seem to be guitarists seconding on mandolin. I've never met a serious mandolin player who used a Martin flatback mandolin as his main instrument.
Raul replied:

Quote:
Originally Posted by raulb View Post
Wade, you need to meet me then. I consider myself a mando player who also plays a guitar, and I have a flat back A-style Martin.

BTW, I paid $500 for it in the mid-80s and it is still worth $500.
Well, cool. As I wrote, I've never met many people seriously playing one. What style of music do you play on yours?

I'm another guy who uses an unconventional or uncommon mandolin as his main mandolin. I played an exceptionally nice, high end oval hole Kentucky mandolin as my stage instrument for nearly twenty years, but for the past three years I've been using the modern National mandolin that I helped design:




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  #13  
Old 04-20-2009, 07:42 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devellis View Post
The website with the Martin Style 5 that you gave is mine. Actually, bowlback mandolins have a very enthusiastic following, just not so much in America. Classical musicians are the only substantial group in the USA that favor bowlbacks. The Style 5 is one of the top models Martin made and one of the fanciest instruments of any type to have come from the Martin factory. Martin and Vega bowlbacks are among the most respected bowlbacks made in this country. There were scads of low-quality instruments produced in the late 19th and early 20th century.

Having said all that, a bowlback isn't for everyone. I have a lot of interest in high-quality vintage American mandolins and that category isn't fully represented without a nice bowlback. But I don't play it much. Mine was in very good shape, needing only a tuner button and tailpiece cover when I got it. The pearl inlay on the neck is stunning and the overal materials and construction quality is what you'd expect in a pre-war martin instrument.

If you want the voice of a bowlback, a nice Martin is a good choice. In terms of value, the market is small. If you find a buyer who wants one and you have one in good shape to offer, some serious money can change hands. But those opportunities don't come around all that often and buying as an investment is questionable. Over at Mandolin Cafe', a mandolin like this gets a fair amount of respect. Most people in the know would agree that the musical value of these instruments surpasses their cash value. That is, they cost less than they're worth as musical tools, if it's a tool you want. Repairs can be costly and difficult to arrange, which lowers their value.

If I were in the market for a high-end American bowlback, I'd want one that was currently in great shape or that could be restored to great shape. One with a badly slipped neck joint (the position of the bridge required for proper intonation can be a give-away) isn't much of a deal even at a bargain price. Also, bowl repairs other than relatively trivial cracks can be a bear. Not many folks out there know how to work on these critters.

So, I'd probably give some thought to what your motives are. If you feel that you could do the work and would like to have a nice bowlback, this would fit the bill. If you think you'll be able to triple your money reselling it in a year, that's probably unlikely. If it's really cheap and you're a fan of beautiful objects, well maybe.
Great post, Bob. I repeated it in case of the forum surfers missed it the first time through!


Wade Hampton Miller
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