I 've got over a dozen beater guitars....

[Jackknifegypsy]

that are in one form or another, either dismantled, or minor rehab, and they are drastically different from the day they were delivered.

Two are old May Bells and they have the deepest lower bouts over all the others: 4.2 inches. These two guitars are the best sounding over all others, but,

Q: would assuming that the deeper lower bout is responsible for this superior tone be the right conclusion, seeing as they are all laminated woods?

[gitnoob]

Blow over the top of a small bottle and note the tone.

Now blow over the top of a larger bottle and note the tone.

Compare. Which tone is "superior?"

Tell us when you know.

[John Arnold]

I have had about 30 old May Bells and they are not laminated. IMHO, the deep body is doing very little. The main reason they sound good is because of the top bracing. Technically they are ladder braced, but the angled brace between the bridge and soundhole is a definite improvement.

[Jackknifegypsy]

What wood is used? I posted a pic of one May Bell three months ago and several responders said it was birch.

Since you've seen so many of them, was the wood used all the same?

I've stripped the finish off top, back and sides. Would you be able to identify it?

[John Arnold]

The lesser models were all birch. Better ones had spruce tops, or were all mahogany.

[Roselynne]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

The lesser models were all birch. Better ones had spruce tops, or were all mahogany.

This may be a silly question, but I'm curious: what does a May Bell birch sound like, in comparison to those made with the better woods?

[Jackknifegypsy]

...depending on whether John Arnold can tell me if he recognizes the wood from the pictures I will post of the one I posted several months ago and the one I'm working on now, (If they are different woods) I will have it strung and ready for the bridge by tomorrow.

If there were a way to post the sound of these, I would record and post them as well.

Otherwise I'll record it some other way as I want a permanent recording with the same bridges, saddles, nuts and strings for future comparative purposes.

[John Arnold]

Sometimes I can identify wood species from a photo. A lot depends on the skill of the photographer. The model specifications of the May Bells are such that the woods used can usually be determined simply by describing the features of the guitar. The cheapest models (all birch, including the top) had no body binding, and were usually stained a red mahogany color. The spruce tops had white binding, at least around the top. The mahogany models were.....mahogany.
Birch is very common on budget guitars from the early-1900's until around 1970. These are frequently 'catalog' guitars made in Chicago....Regal, Slingerland (May Bell), Harmony, Kay, Stella, etc. Most of this birch used for flat-top instruments was sliced as thick veneer, rather than sawn. This process is very efficient because it is less labor-intensive and produces much less waste. Gibson also used birch for the backs and sides of many of their mandolins and archtop guitars.
Birch is frequently compared to maple, but I hear a little more brightness....pushing it a bit toward a mahogany tone.

[gitnoob]

That's interesting about the veneer-like slicing. That explains why they all look flat sawn -- I never understood why I didn't see much QS birch.

[Jackknifegypsy]

..both guitars are definitely not mahogany. So that only leaves birch. And it does look so much like maple that I can't really tell the difference from some maple laminated tops I have salvaged.

Since I thought they were 3 ply laminate, i didn't belt sand the thickness as aggressively as I might have, but I rectified that and took the sides and back down as much as I dare.

Re: That angular brace at the sound hole. If you think it helps account for the tone, I will use it in several tops I'm working on now, including a double top because I really like the May Bell sound best of all.

Thanks for narrowing down the May Bell woods for me.

[John Arnold]

That explains why they all look flat sawn -- I never understood why I didn't see much QS birch.

Veneer can be quarter sliced, but that is not the case with most of these guitars. Quartering tends to produce some chipping out during the slicing process, especially on veneer that thick. In addition, quartering is more labor-intensive than slab cutting, and it produces narrower slices.
Another point is that slicing often produces micro cracks (checks) on the surface next to the knife, so it is important that that side of the wood be placed on the inside of the guitar. Otherwise, the cracks will eventually reveal themselves in the finish. Since bookmatching will expose the cracked side on one half of a top or back, these guitars almost always have one-piece backs and tops.

[gitnoob]

I would have thought that Birch trees were usually smallish in diameter and that the veneer cutter peeled the log.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by gitnoob

I would have thought that Birch trees were usually smallish in diameter and that the veneer cutter peeled the log.

Veneer can be sliced off a log just like toilet paper comes off a roll.
When it's done that way it's called 'rotary cut' but rotary doesn't look
like plain sliced, quartered or rift at all. Inexpensive plywood and cheap kitchen cabinet doors are often veneered with rotary.