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#1
10-12-2017, 12:34 PM
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Dave’s pickup adventures 2017-2018 edition
Well folks, I’ve been through nearly every pickup on the market. I’ll soon update my pickup comparison chart with my latest testing experiences. Frankly, I’ve decided that there really are no “bullet-proof”, “one size fits all”, solutions available on the market for my needs.
Basically, from my testing, there are two types of pickups: ones that have a dramatic effect on acoustic tone and ones that have no discernible effect on acoustic tone. What I can surmise is that most of the better sounding pickup systems, that also reject feedback well, have the most impact on tone. Those pickups (sound board transducers) that have little effect on acoustic tone, are more prone to feedback. So, I’ve spent much of 2017 trying to find pickup solutions that sound great and don’t effect acoustic tone. After all of these tests, I’ve landed right back where I started: the K&K Pure Mini passive system. I’m a little disappointed to admit that I haven’t found a better compromise. But, I’m also satisfied that I tried nearly everything available (except for Dazzo). Henceforth, I expect to use K&K in all of my acoustic guitars. I’ll now look into preamp/DI solutions that can be belt clipped. I’ll look at IR convolution solutions like Tondexter and some home brew options Cuki and I will work on this winter. I will also be keeping my HD28E Retro for gigs. To my ears, the Aura F1 Plus system remains the best OEM solution on the market. It does not degrade acoustic tone and sounds very realistic. Each player has to weight the factors that are important to them. But, for me, keeping my acoustic guitars as lively, powerful and resonant as possible is very high on my list. Even though I’ve found some excellent compromise pickups, and dual source rigs, that are good for a stage guitar, I still haven’t found one that keeps the guitar sounding fresh and lively. So, I’m interested in folk’s options for gear outboard of a passive K&K install. And, I’m particularly curious as to what people use when they want to keep everything portable (i.e. without the use of floor pedals.) For instance, until I settle on an IR convolution option, I intend to use the Fishman Pro Platinum Stage compact preamp system.
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"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday." Last edited by martingitdave; 10-12-2017 at 01:03 PM. 
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#2
10-12-2017, 12:54 PM
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I always enjoy your thoughtful posts and all your gear adventures! I don't have much to add other than to say that I just took delivery of a Fishman Platinum Stage yesterday. I think it gives a player quite a few bells and whistles in a highly portable package. To me it seems a tad large to really be a "belt clip" preamp but I like that it can be used that way if needed. I found a used Platinum Pro that is on its way to me but I think I'll be keeping the Stage too. It's a good one! Matt
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#3
10-12-2017, 01:00 PM
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Folks, I promise we didn't discuss this beforehand. LOL Matt, now that you have the Bose L1M2 and T1, what will you be doing with the preamps, and which pickups did you settle on? Did you sell the TouchMix 8 too?
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"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
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#5
10-12-2017, 02:32 PM
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 I did sell the TouchMix 8. That's a great mixer but since I'm back to Bose I figured I'd just roll with the T1 so I found a good home for the TouchMix. As for preamps, etc. with the Bose I was really happy using a Rupert Neve RNDI with the Trance Audio Amulet in my Collings. It's an active DI, phantom powered so really quick and easy to add to the signal chain. But I decided to go on a guitar adventure and last week I took delivery of this:  It's a Tom Anderson Crowdster. It's a really fun guitar to play and a very unique departure from chasing that "perfect" acoustic guitar tone. It has an LR Baggs Element in it. I've been playing it through the Bose in our living room and I'm having a really tough time with the low end through the Bose B2. A few long time Bose users on the Bose forum have been helping me and it seems like the general consensus is that for acoustic(ish) guitars in small rooms like this, the B2 is just too much. I bought the two Fishman preamps (Pro Platinum and Platinum Stage) to see if I could tame the low end on the Crowdster through the B2. I've only tried the Stage so far and I still couldn't whip it into shape so I put the B2 up for sale and ordered a B1. The B2 was really fun this summer outdoors, especially when I was thumping my Porchboard but I don't need this much low end ever and it seems to be detrimental in some cases. (like in our living room) I'm pretty sure the B1 will "fix" the Bose. I still have an Eon One and the Crowdster sounds great going straight into that so I'm confident that the smaller sub will produce the same result with the Bose. I spent some time today with the Eon One comparing the tone of the Crowdster with and without the Platinum Stage and I really like that little Fishman! Long answer but I think when I'm using the Crowdster with the Bose I'll probably be using one of the Fishman preamps but I won't know for sure until the B1 arrives. Matt
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#6
10-12-2017, 03:10 PM
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I think in most applications the Tonedexter and K&K combination is a match made in pickup heaven. I think you'll be really happy with it. I'm sure the Fishman will work great until then, as will the Baggs Para or the Tonebone PZ Deluxe. Anything that allows you a notch filter and a sweepable midrange will help you dial-in a clean, clear, natural tone.
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Alvarez MC90 Guild GAD-50 w/Seymour Duncan Mag Mic Taylor 352ce Taylor 514ce Zoom AC3 https://linktr.ee/erikjmusic
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#7
10-12-2017, 05:43 PM
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Matt, you really have been on an adventure with your gear. I’m surprised you can’t EQ that low end with the T1 para EQ settings. Keep us up to date. I’m curious how this will work out.
__________________
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
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#8
10-12-2017, 05:49 PM
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Dave’s pickup adventures 2017-2018 edition
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Erik, thanks for the comment. I’ve been through too many systems and combinations of systems in the past few years. My best results were with the factory Taylor ES2 (behind the saddle piezo) in an 2014 816ce, and the Aura F1 Plus (IR convolution like Tondexter) in my HD28E. Second to that are the K&K installs with and without a second source. The aforementioned factory systems also had the benefit of side mounted knobs and preamps that don’t degrade tone. Any of the K&K active preamp options that offer EQ are soundboard mounted and degrade tone. So, passive pickups and outboard signal processing seem to be the way to go, if you’re not playing those (or similar) factory systems, unless you can live with some degradation. My “dream” accessory would be a portable plug preamp version of the Tonedexter with a single preloaded image to use with a K&K passive install. I’ll keep dreaming. :-)
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"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
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#9
10-12-2017, 06:45 PM
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Our living room is not very big. I think it's a case of the B2, even with the "-" selected being too much for the room. I still hear a bit of the same thing with the Eon One in that room but it's not nearly as pronounced. I think I'll be ok with the Platinum Pro with the notch knob and the T1. Even so, I still think I'll be better off with the B1 Matt
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#10
10-12-2017, 07:30 PM
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I know guys up here will use B2s for their acoustic acts. In fact, one duo uses 2 B2s. There might be some benefit to having it in the future, if it’s not too much to carry.
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"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
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#11
10-12-2017, 11:48 PM
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How do you feel about the Baggs M1A and M80? I'm curious as a lot of pros use these two systems.
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#12
10-13-2017, 05:26 AM
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My first acoustic pickup about 26 years ago was a passive sound hole mag unit. They work well. The newest versions have active electronics, adjustable gain, and some even include a mic as a second source. They don’t require any permanent modifications and they have the highest gain before feedback. Tonally, they are better today that when I used them. All of that said, I now prefer not to have anything in the sound hole. My concerns are partially aesthetic and tone related. But, my opinion isn’t too important on this pickup choice because I don’t use one today. There are lots of folks on AGF who do use them happily.
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"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
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#13
10-13-2017, 05:58 AM
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Interesting write up! I will admit that I am always looking for the next best thing but for me, I finally had to come to terms with the fact that I was spending far too much time worrying about my sound and less on actually just playing. I definitely research pickups far too much and I have spent way more than I would like to admit. Here are some of the conclusions I have come to:
First, the most natural sounding pickup is not always the best for live use. I have tried a few SBT's and the Lyric and at the end of the day, I find that they are either difficult to eq or they are missing something. The Lyric for example was incredibly natural but there was no depth, or fatness to it. Just sounded thin. With SBT's, I often find I am playing with eq far more than I would like. I am currently using the Amulet but I am not fully there yet on loving it. Second, the whole feedback problem thing was something I worried about for the longest time but you know what? It has never been a problem. I play on loud stages with monitors that are fairly hot and I never once had feedback with the Lyric, K&K or Amulet. This shocked me but I no longer worry about feedback. Lastly, I think there are reasons why pickup systems like the Aura and Anthem are so popular. They are just dead simple to dial in and typically they take little eq. The Anthem SL was hard to dial in but I think the full Anthem would be easier with the blend option. The Anthem does impact the acoustic tone slightly but there's always a compromise there. I will say this about the Aura, I think it sounds best when it comes installed in a guitar with a specific image of that guitar included. The Martin guitars with the Aura always sound amazing but trying to pair a random Aura image with a guitar just never sounds right. I have a question though.. You said the Aura did not degrade tone on your HD28E Retro. However, did it not come installed in that guitar? Just wondering how you assessed any tonal change?
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#14
10-13-2017, 06:25 AM
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Re: Belt Clip Preamp/DI
I bought a Headway EDB2 recently for one of the more difficult tone projects I have had - a clip on mic over the cone of a Dobro. It was able to eq in a natural tone that was a major improvement over a PA mixer. Pretty darn good considering my low end mini condenser mic I am using. Tone can be an endless chase toward unobtanium... So what I can say it was a solution that worked. It is a blend capable preamp with the intent of it being a mic plus piezo or pickup. Onboard 18V phantom power too.. A huge bonus. A very experienced soloist in my area says its in his top 2 solutions for acoustic guitar... He has been through a lot of gear. Last edited by Tommy_G; 10-13-2017 at 06:42 AM.
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#15
10-13-2017, 07:06 AM
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Matt
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