why acoustic guitar players cant read scores?

[Joe F]

As a former classical violinist, bassist, and choir conductor, I can read full scores in standard notation.

I find it of little to no value to me in making music on my guitar however. Once I determine the key signature, the chord progression used is usually quick to figure out after that and I'm off.

If I were to be a fingerstyle or classical player however, it would likely be a huge asset.

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by handers

That said, it is all about practice and recognizing patterns. I have seen few published approaches to demystifying the approach to fretting 6 strings but I am sure that good readers for the guitar could do this.

my dear friend
the first lesson when you a have a standard notation score is to put fingers ,right and left, and thats for piano and i dont know what else

[HHP]

Originally Posted by AllThumbsBruce

Even longer - I recall an article about 30,000 year old bird-bone flutes.

Wonder if they argued incessantly about which bird's bones produced the best tone.

[TimberlineGuy]

My first instrument was the trumpet and through this, i learned to read music. After trumpet i got into cello, violin, piano, and a handful of other instruments including guitar. I CAN read notation and sight read new songs with ease. However, i choose to do this with certain instruments and not others.

For instance, I am much better at playing trumpet with sheet music as my fingers and eyes work together in harmony to play the music. I am more of a musical translator than a musician on trumpet and other horns. On the other hand, i tend to improvise and feel the music as it should be (to my ears) on my stringed instruments. I can go either way on any of the instruments, but I am more accustomed to a certain way on a certain instrument.

Come to think of it, I tend to improvise and not require notation on the instruments where my hand moves on a keyboard or a fingerboard and i can visualize the notes. I think this is important. I can almost hear the note when i look at it then my mind tells my fingers "go there". As opposed to trumpet or flute, when my fingers need to be in a specific PATTERN to match a certain note. There is only movement of the fingers and not of the whole hand. These patterns are not related to the notes around them as the positions of notes on a fretboard (adjacent positions=adjacent notes). it makes it harder to visualize the notes as my mind has trouble calculating the harmonics of the note in a woodwind or horn.

i hope that was clear. i was contemplating and typing at the same time! ask me if i need to clarify anything

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Paikon

my point is
if i say lets all learn a movement from a lute suite of J.S.Bach
what will you say?
we dont play this cos its not in tabs?

Your point is well taken, but this isn't a great example to illustrate it.

Lute music was never written in standard notion: it was written in a form of tablature, though different from guitar tablature. At some point, someone transcribed for guitar Bach's lute suites from lute tablature and then wrote down that arrangement/transcription in standard music notation. One can obtain facsimiles of the original lute tablature.

One of my classical guitar teachers could sight-read entire orchestral scores and transpose the necessary parts into the appropriate key and transcribe it real-time as he played. He was partial to Mozart scores, but played all kinds of things.

As others have pointed out, in our time, different skills and abilities are required to play different types and styles of music.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Paikon

my point is
if i say lets all learn a movement from a lute suite of J.S.Bach
what will you say?
we dont play this cos its not in tabs?

Hi Paikon...

I play fingerstyle guitar, and J.S. Bach would not be my fare for playing at Coffee Houses...never.

And we do all our own arrangements for our guitar duo, and scores would be of no use to us. The only way a score would exist is after we arrange a song if we scored it...unlikely to happen.

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Your point is well taken, but this isn't a great example to illustrate it.

ok
lets say we will play Napoleon Coste study 22 which is a study with pauses
does tabs cover that music or you need standard notation?
its a rhetorical question

[rick-slo]

This topic reoccurs periodically, usually with derogatory undertones.

Standard notation is piano tab. It is all laid out on the keyboard.

It's a lot more complicated on a fretboard with multiple choices for many
of the same notes.

A lot of guitar players simply don't need to read standard notation to become good players. Hence they don't bother to learn.

That said, even though not mandatory for a lot of people it would be useful in different ways to know it. I picked up standard notation
when I was studying piano as a child and later used it reading classical guitar scores (most of that music is in standard notation, not tab).

[pitner]

Originally Posted by HHP

Wonder if they argued incessantly about which bird's bones produced the best tone.

The fossilized ones no doubt. If you get the bird bones that are illegal but OK to use cause they are older than the law that is current, those are the very best. Many have taken to using legal bird bones and dipping them in dark tea to make it look old. Those really work well also. My personal preference is titanium induced bones for clarity of tone but that's just me.

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Paikon...

I play fingerstyle guitar, and J.S. Bach would not be my fare for playing at Coffee Houses...never.

And we do all our own arrangements for our guitar duo, and scores would be of no use to us. The only way a score would exist is after we arrange a song if we scored it...unlikely to happen.

i 've arranged the tango from the movie "scent of a woman" for guitar but its in standard notation
so its available to the people who can read standard notation

[AllThumbsBruce]

Originally Posted by HHP

Wonder if they argued incessantly about which bird's bones produced the best tone.

Good one!

Here is a popular press article about the study:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/25/science/25flute.html

They found flutes made of griffon vulture and swan bones and they also mention flutes made from mammoth ivory (presumably not fossilized yet). So I think we can presume lively tone discussions. They found the flute next to a figurine of a busty, nude woman - I'll leave the obvious connection unsaid. The also said:

"The Neanderthals, close human relatives, apparently left no firm evidence of having been musical."

[HHP]

Originally Posted by AllThumbsBruce

"The Neanderthals, close human relatives, apparently left no firm evidence of having been musical."

Lady Gaga is a Neanderthal?

[walternewton]

Originally Posted by Paikon

ok
lets say we will play Napoleon Coste study 22 which is a study with pauses
does tabs cover that music or you need standard notation?
its a rhetorical question

It just depends on the needs and interests of the individual player - most all guitarists seriously interested in playing classical repertoire will learn to read standard notation, of course.

[usb_chord]

Originally Posted by Paikon

there is 400 years written music out there and all i hear is about tabs

I used to, but my goals developed in ways that made it unnecessary. It's a great skill for any guitarist to have...but there are folks out there who believe you arent a true musician (whatever that means...) if you can't follow the dots. A ridiculous notion, but I've heard it.

[brahmz118]

I'm with the OP. As an arranger / composer, readers are a joy to work with. Usually the guitarists and ukulele players are well below the functional levels of instruments like violins, flutes, piano, horns, etc. And it's a shame because sometimes a melodic line on an acoustic guitar is the exact sound I have in mind. I hate excluding the guitars so I usually let them improvise, but it's not the same.

I once worked with a bass guitar player who could sight-read in treble clef. So I arranged a section with the bass rising up to play melody, and guitars and strings dropping lower to accompany it. I was really happy with the way that turned out.

I'm always working on my sight-reading on guitar. I don't use the 'notes can be found in different locations' issue as an excuse. I tackle Bach regularly, as his tunes get stuck in my head easily, but for me the problem is not the sight-reading and fretboard familiarity - it's the right hand technique and left hand fingering that slows me down. For example I usually try to flatpick his solo partitas, but my cross-picking is underdeveloped for that kind of music. But I'm working on it. Reading gives me access to so much incredible music.

So I love working with readers and sight-readers. The ones I've encountered don't always have the limitations that others have alluded to. The ones who have really committed themselves to music developed their ears and improvisational chops, as well as their reading. It's not an either/or proposition.