How Does Taylor Grade and Price Wood?

california91207 · #1 02-10-2008, 12:09 PM

It seems like there are several grading systems for Brazilian rosewood. Many luthier suppliers use a 1A-5A system, others use "master grade" and similar references, and there was a thread here years ago saying Taylor used an "ABC" system, but at that time there was even question as to whether A was a higher quality than B, etc. I haven't seen anything published as to upcharges on Taylors (there are some prices listed for R Taylor). Does anyone have experience ordering Brazilian Rosewood and Macassar Ebony bodies and Adirondak tops as custom items on their Taylors that can explain their grading and pricing?

Andromeda · #2 02-10-2008, 12:12 PM

From what I have seen from the order sheet. There are things like A, AA, AAA, etc and also master grades of wood. The higher up you go the more you will pay. I have never seen letters like B or C to grade woods from Taylor. Doesn't mean they don't do it, its just that I have not seen it.

I'm sure others will be by and give a more thorough answer.

SongwriterFan · #3 02-10-2008, 12:17 PM

I've only seen the following terms used by Taylor:

A
AA
AAA
Master
Reserved

california91207 · #4 02-10-2008, 12:30 PM

I was just on the Taylor website, no listing there for custom options on anything but the Presentation series, where they charge and additional $3500 for brazilian with no mention of grading.

Andromeda · #5 02-10-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by california91207

I was just on the Taylor website, no listing there for custom options on anything but the Presentation series, where they charge and additional $3500 for brazilian with no mention of grading.

Here is how it is listed in an old Build to Order sheet I have:

Quote:

Wood: Back & Sides
Brazilian Rosewood, A
Brazilian Rosewood, AA
Brazilian Rosewood, Master

Jeff M · #6 02-10-2008, 01:42 PM

FWIW, there is NO universal grading system.
ie, what one builder considers "AAAAA" another my consider "AAA".

Large builders, like Taylor and Martin, use "visual grading", ie, how "pretty" a piece of wood is. Does it look "perfect"?
The best looking sets don't necessarily make the best sounding ones...especially when it comes to rare woods.
Most custom builders/small builders will use how the wood actually sounds....it's tap tone...when grading wood.

Another issue, builders (at least the large ones) will grade wood based on what else they happen to have in the shop at that moment.
Their "top grade" Braz. today may have been a medium grade set a few months ago...or in another month.

If somebody is considering spending $$$$$ for a Braz. custom made Taylor, they may want to also think about some other options....like a solo luthier custom built guiatar, or "upper end" companies like Collings, Goodall or R. Taylor.
With the solo builders, you have a build process where the luthier adjusts his build depending on the characteristics of the woods he is using. With a large builder like Taylor, even with a custom order...it's down the assembly line it goes, same build design/bracing/machines/builders as all the other Taylors produced that day.

It's the builder that determines what a guitar will sound like much more than what wood they use.

A Braz Taylor will sound like ......a Taylor.
An Indian rosewood Ryan will sound like...a Ryan.

Chazmo · #7 02-10-2008, 01:44 PM

Didn't I read somewhere here that Brazilian was gone from the standard/custom line and only remained for PS series?

In any case, I'm really not sure these grading systems are particularly meaningful to us. Tastes change. E.g., folks have taken to having some sapwood in order to get cool looking wood.

I also read somewhere that there are other "grades" of wood that we never see because guitar manufacturers simply don't use anything below grade A.

I will say this. I've never seen a disappointing Taylor. IMO, Taylor has made their name on beautiful woods and consistent construction.

nikpearson · #8 02-11-2008, 02:19 AM

In my experience all builders grade wood by how it looks. Yes some also assess the tone but this is a secondary factor. How a piece of wood sounds on it's own and how it sounds as part of an instrument can be very different.

As for Brazilian Rosewood, I too seem to remember Taylor using some below A grade wood on limited edition models - stump wood?

I've noticed as much, if not more, inconsistency between small builders guitars which suggest to me they also find it difficult to predict exactly how an instrument is going to sound. There's a tremendous amount of skill in building a great guitar but also, I suspect, a healthy dollop of luck. The very fact that there is a noticeable difference between near identical instruments from the same builder makes me very wary of custom ordering.

california91207 · #9 02-15-2008, 08:45 AM

I took the Taylor factory tour yesterday with a couple of friends -- amazing!

I asked our guide about how the wood is graded. He indicated that they grade A to AAA, and that grading is relative. A grade (like on my guitar) is the least figured, with AAA the most highly figured. If a wood set is graded AAA and far superior looking wood comes in, the AAA may be dropped to AA for reference in house.

Taylor has a small selection of Brazilian rosewood, it is kept in a small cage in a corner of the room where backs and sides are stored and cut. The guide thought that, when available, pretty soon brazilian rosewood wood only be offered on Presentation Series (could be different for R.Taylor). He also indicated that supplies of other highly figured woods, including maple are dwindling, and that at the current rate, the supply of Sitka spruce could dry up in as little as nine years.