any advice on recording acoustic guitar+vocals+piano?

[selectedout]

Any tips on tryiing to improve the acoustic quality? sounds boomy at points, and gets muddied by the piano as well. have had a difficult time finding that goldilocks zone..

I've played around with EQ and compressors for post-processing but I just can't seem to get that nice acoustic sound you hear on professional recordings without compromising high or low-end.

Thanks in advance
sample clip here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKyFiylantI

[rick-slo]

Good job and nice singing and sounds pretty good but...

Can you try separating the apparent location of piano, guitar, and voice a bit?

Can you try a high pass filter on the guitar when the piano is filling in the low end?

Can you pick a more attractive reverb and be very careful about not overdoing the percentage of reverb used?

[selectedout]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Good job and nice singing and sounds pretty good but...

Can you try separating the apparent location of piano, guitar, and voice a bit?

Can you try a high pass filter on the guitar when the piano is filling in the low end?

Can you pick a more attractive reverb and be very careful about not overdoing the percentage of reverb used?

Thanks rick! I could try panning left guitar, right piano more maybe? keep vocals centered... the high pass filter sounds like a good idea -- ive played around with some EQ a bit but havent tried that yet. Im afraid I'll lose the thicker/bass end of the guitar sound.

haha i did saturate everything in reverb didn't i? i think i got carried away and didn't notice. Also, do you know of any good plugin reverbs i can find online? Im using one that came w/ Ableton live demo and I always have a difficult adjusting.

Thanks again for your input I really appreciate it
cheers

[rick-slo]

I assumed you had one mike on piano, one on guitar, and one on voice. If you stereo miked then panning becomes more tricky. I'd like your voice more forward in space than the instruments.

I have Ableton but I don't use any of their effects. You might try Lexicon Native Reverb and/or a convolution reverb such as SIR-2 or Pristine Space. The dollars add up though. Try demos first.

[selectedout]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

I assumed you had one mike on piano, one on guitar, and one on voice. If you stereo miked then panning becomes more tricky. I'd like your voice more forward in space than the instruments.

I have Ableton but I don't use any of their effects. You might try Lexicon Native Reverb and/or a convolution reverb such as SIR-2 or Pristine Space. The dollars add up though. Try demos first.

thanks again rick,

hey so I experimented a little bit with the highpass filter, sounds a lot better thru my headphones ( dont have speaker monitors ) but my speakers on my laptop seem to have a more treble and picks up that scratchy-ness from the guitar from my pick a lot more than i would have liked. Im not sure if my cheap head phones need an upgrade at this point for what the "true" sound is.

as for the recording, I one mic piano, one mic on vocals, and i use 2 mics on the guitar. I havent found a nice robust position for consistent recording yet.

have not given the reverb effects a try yet but its next on the to-do list, maybe before new headphones. Any recommendations on head phones?

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by selectedout

thanks again rick,
Any recommendations on head phones?

I like the Grado 225i headphones

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by selectedout

haha i did saturate everything in reverb didn't i? i think i got carried away and didn't notice. Also, do you know of any good plugin reverbs i can find online? Im using one that came w/ Ableton live demo and I always have a difficult adjusting.

First I really like your performance.
Couple of quick thoughts in general: Yes as per Rick a bit more separation would help.

So what is your actual track configuration and count ? 1 mono vocal / two mono or 1 stereo guitar / 1 mono or 1 stereo piano ?

to start
If it were me and if you have separate panning L and R for the guitar. I would try with them panned 65% left and 65% right.... then have piano about 30 , 30 left and right, then the vocal center.


In simple terms Reverb is in fact introducing multiple additional reflections ergo more potential to muddy the sound. It also in general tends to move things backwards in a mix. BUT . If done judiciously and lightly can add a feeling of depth and help things sit nicely as well as serve to add coherence to multiple difference instruments (i.e. make them sound as if they are all in the same space). But as you increase reverb effect, it tends to aurally move things back in the sound field can make them less distinct or identifiable.

Question how are you using the reverb as a single or multiple separate parallel effect/s....or are you placing one instance on each track ?
IMO if the intention is to have it enhance the sound but not really be an out right or noticeable effect, it is probably better to have it in parallel ( on it own aux or bus track and send to it ) . And only if I was going to use it a featured and noticeable effect would I put it on the audio tracks themselves.

Another thought. to help define he different instruments with EQ is with subtractive method. That is say for the guitar roll off below 150 hz and slightly lower the upper mids 3k to 5k and for the piano slightly lower the low mids 800 to 2.5k and see if that helps with definition.

[KevWind]

oopppssss double

[Mbroady]

Nice voice
You might consider getting 2 mics that are figure 8 or 2 that are multi-pattern
You can then point the null at the opposing source.
Then record the Piano after the fact

Hear is more about what I am talking about
http://www.recordingmag.com/resource...etail/158.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QWNXzp5P6g

[selectedout]

Originally Posted by Mbroady

Nice voice
You might consider getting 2 mics that are figure 8 or 2 that are multi-pattern
You can then point the null at the opposing source.
Then record the Piano after the fact

Hear is more about what I am talking about
http://www.recordingmag.com/resource...etail/158.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QWNXzp5P6g

there's so much info out there Im starting to get lost.
I use a cheap pencil mic and another large dia condensor ( u can see in the pic in the youtube vid)

but Im still reading thru the links u sent. soo much good advice .. i guess thats why I posted here in the first place to get a third, fourth, fifth opinion because after a while its all starting to blur haha

[Legolas1971]

Originally Posted by selectedout

Any tips on tryiing to improve the acoustic quality? sounds boomy at points, and gets muddied by the piano as well. have had a difficult time finding that goldilocks zone..

I've played around with EQ and compressors for post-processing but I just can't seem to get that nice acoustic sound you hear on professional recordings without compromising high or low-end.

Thanks in advance
sample clip here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKyFiylantI

Yeah, the vocal is very cool. As for the rest of the mix I would say....

Definitely too much reverb. Personally, I hardly use any reverb at all
anymore. The reasons for that are many. As mentioned before, reverb
has the tendency to push things back in the mix and muddy the sound. Also, I just prefer mixes that are dryer and thus in the listeners face more.

I know you're worried about the guitar being too boomy but I don't see that
as much of an issue. You've got your voice, piano and guitar so there's not much in the way here of instrumentation. However, they are all competing for the same frequency space. For Eq'ing the acoustic guitar you can leave more low end in, however, it can't be so much that it's fighting for the space that the piano is also in. You could try rolling off the low frequencies somewhere from 100 to 130HZ. That's going to take much of the unwanted lows out of the guitars. Then compress them so that they level out but also sound more complex. I would also pan the guitars hard L and R. I'm not sure if you're recording the piano in stereo but I would recommend it and pan them L and R but not quite as far as the guitars. Keep the vocal dead center.

Also, are you recording to a click? The tempo seems a bit loose but if that's what you're going for then I understand.

I'm not sure if you're already doing it but you should also use a stereo compressor on the master fader. This will again level off any peaks across the whole mix and make the it sound more full. You don't have to kill it with compression but just a bit will do the job.

Sounds good.....

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by selectedout

there's so much info out there Im starting to get lost.
I use a cheap pencil mic and another large dia condensor ( u can see in the pic in the youtube vid)

but Im still reading thru the links u sent. soo much good advice .. i guess thats why I posted here in the first place to get a third, fourth, fifth opinion because after a while its all starting to blur haha

Yep, there is so much info it can be overwhelming. Just keep experimenting with what you have. Treating the room with some blankets on the walls helps with unwanted room reflection.

But in the end it is all about performance and emotion.

[MikeBmusic]

Yes, keep experimenting. If you want to 2-mic the guitar, try to get two more-matched mics. I use one positioned near the soundhole, but angled away from it towards the 12th fret and another pointed at the lower bout. I pan them almost together, just a few degrees separate, but usually put the lower bout mic lower in volume (YMMV depending on guitar, I'm miking dreadnoughts).

[selectedout]

alright after a few months, I had some time to experiment again and refine my skills, this is what I got:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlDjeExj-fI

let me know what you all think
appreciate it