1 13/16ths fretboard width at 12th fret

[gstring]

Hello AGF members.

My 12 fret guitar has a 1 13/16ths nut and measures 2 5/16ths at the 12th fret. To me 2 5/16ths feels a little too wide.

If you own a guitar with 1 13/16ths would you be kind enough to measure the width at the 12th fret so that I may have a comparison.

Thanks very much for your help.

daniel

[jmhill]

Originally Posted by gstring

Hello AGF members.

If you own a guitar with 1 13/16ths would you be kind enough to measure the width at the 12th fret so that I may have a comparison.

Thanks very much for your help.

daniel

Both of mine are 2 5/16'' at the 12th.
That seems to be the standard for larger nut widths.

I have a 1 3/4" nut 12 fretter that is 2 1/4'', but again, smaller nut width.

Cheers

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by gstring

Hello AGF members.

My 12 fret guitar has a 1 13/16ths nut and measures 2 5/16ths at the 12th fret. To me 2 5/16ths feels a little too wide.

If you own a guitar with 1 13/16ths would you be kind enough to measure the width at the 12th fret so that I may have a comparison.

Thanks very much for your help.

daniel

I have five Collings 12 fretters -all 1 & 13/16" nut widths - that's why I have 'em!

The string spacing on the dreads is 2 & 3/8"
On the 000 over 25.5" scale is 2 & 5/16" and the 00 over 24 &7/8" scale is also 2 & 5/16"

I also have two 12 fret Eastmans: a size "0" (E20-P) and a "00" (E40-00) both have 1 & 13/16", short scale and 2 & 5/16" SS.

This is the appropriate Martin style geometry for original Martin designs, and ideal for fingerstyle.

[Jamolay]

I have a Pono 00 that is 1 13/16” nut and 2 1/4” at the 12th.

My classical is 2 3/8” at the 12th.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by gstring

Hello AGF members.

My 12 fret guitar has a 1 13/16ths nut and measures 2 5/16ths at the 12th fret. To me 2 5/16ths feels a little too wide.

If you own a guitar with 1 13/16ths would you be kind enough to measure the width at the 12th fret so that I may have a comparison.

Thanks very much for your help.

daniel

You didn’t mention what the string spacing at the bridge is, but I suspect that it is also 2-5-16”. The taper of the neck is generally such that there is a consistent amount of exposed fretboard on the outside of the 1st and 6th strings (e.g., 1/8”). 2-5/16” at the 12th fret sounds pretty typical for a guitar with a 1-13/16” nut and 2-5/16” string spacing—as Silly Moustache noted, the wider fretboard and string spacing is the standard on Martin’s original 12-fret designs (some even had 1-7/8”-wide nuts).

[@lagatrix]

Originally Posted by sinistral

You didn’t mention what the string spacing at the bridge is, but I suspect that it is also 2-5-16”. The taper of the neck is generally such that there is a consistent amount of exposed fretboard on the outside of the 1st and 6th strings (e.g., 1/8”). 2-5/16” at the 12th fret sounds pretty typical for a guitar with a 1-13/16” nut and 2-5/16” string spacing—as Silly Moustache noted, the wider fretboard and string spacing is the standard on Martin’s original 12-fret designs (some even had 1-7/8”-wide nuts).

This touches on why these specs are always unnecessarily murky. The nut width is nominally a measurement of the width of a fretboard at the “zero” point of the fretboard, not the string spacing this point. Guitars with wider nuts generally have wider string spacing than those with narrower nuts—there's more real estate on which to cut slots, but there is a lot of discrepancy in actual string spacing from one 1-3/4" nutted guitar to another (this discrepancy is either given to, or taken from the distance between the outermost strings and the edge of the fretboard).

To me, the measurement at the 12th fret is less useful than the measurement of the spread of the strings at the bridge (across the saddle). I suppose for those who spend more time at the upper end of the fretboard, the 12th fret measurement could be useful for determining fret hand comfort. But If, like most I suspect, the measurements at this end are more about the right hand feel/functionality, the saddle measurement is a more reliable number, as there are so many factors affecting feel/functionality at the 12 fret, I think this measurement has less value.

There is little to no correlation in my experience between nut width and saddle spacing. Silly Mustache's Collings are a good example: DS1: 1-13/16" nut, 2-3/8" saddle; 0002H: 1-13/16" nut, 2-5/16" saddle. Martin's Norman Blake signature models are another: both the 000-18 and the 000-28 have 1-13/16" nuts, but the 28 is 2-3/8" at the saddle and the 18 is 2-5/16"... go figure. SCGC OO-SKYE has a 1-13/16" nut and 2-1/4" saddle spacing. Classical guitars have roughly 2" nuts and are spaced at around 2-1/4" across the saddle. You get the point.

I think it's helpful to think of the spacing at opposite ends of the fretboard as different things, and dial in which combo makes for the most natural fit... or you could be like most, and not obsess over this as much as I do

[Skip Ellis]

My Brook Lyn is 2-3/16" at the 12th. It's a 12 fret short scale. Nut is 1-13/16".

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by @lagatrix

This touches on why these specs are always unnecessarily murky. The nut width is nominally a measurement of the width of a fretboard at the “zero” point of the fretboard, not the string spacing this point. Guitars with wider nuts generally have wider string spacing than those with narrower nuts—there's more real estate on which to cut slots, but there is a lot of discrepancy in actual string spacing from one 1-3/4" nutted guitar to another (this discrepancy is either given to, or taken from the distance between the outermost strings and the edge of the fretboard).

To me, the measurement at the 12th fret is less useful than the measurement of the spread of the strings at the bridge (across the saddle). I suppose for those who spend more time at the upper end of the fretboard, the 12th fret measurement could be useful for determining fret hand comfort. But If, like most I suspect, the measurements at this end are more about the right hand feel/functionality, the saddle measurement is a more reliable number, as there are so many factors affecting feel/functionality at the 12 fret, I think this measurement has less value.

There is little to no correlation in my experience between nut width and saddle spacing. Silly Mustache's Collings are a good example: DS1: 1-13/16" nut, 2-3/8" saddle; 0002H: 1-13/16" nut, 2-5/16" saddle. Martin's Norman Blake signature models are another: both the 000-18 and the 000-28 have 1-13/16" nuts, but the 28 is 2-3/8" at the saddle and the 18 is 2-5/16"... go figure. SCGC OO-SKYE has a 1-13/16" nut and 2-1/4" saddle spacing. Classical guitars have roughly 2" nuts and are spaced at around 2-1/4" across the saddle. You get the point.

I think it's helpful to think of the spacing at opposite ends of the fretboard as different things, and dial in which combo makes for the most natural fit... or you could be like most, and not obsess over this as much as I do

In this concurrent thread, the OP was asking about the feasibility of shaving the neck edge to reduce the taper, hence the focus on width of the neck at the 12th fret. The point I was making is that the neck taper generally follows the trapezoidal shape formed by the nut, bridge, and 1st and 6th strings. This is true whether the nut width is 1-11/16”, 1-3/4”, 1-13/16”, 1-7/8” etc., and the string spacing is 2-1/8”, 2-5/16”, 2-1/4”, 2-5/16” etc. There is typically a consistent amount of exposed fretboard on the outside of the 1st and 6th strings so that those strings don’t roll off of the fretboard when fretted. It’s true that the string spacing at the nut is a more precise measurement than nut width, but for what the OP is asking, the question whether the neck is too wide (or wider than it needs to be) at the 12th fret should be determined by comparing the taper of the neck to the taper of the strings from nut to bridge. A good builder will match these tapers, and a guitar with a relatively wide nut (e.g., 1-13/16”) and traditional/wide string spacing at the bridge (2-5/16”) will generally have a corresponding wide neck width at the 12th fret.