To x brace or not to x brace - Sovereign

chucksurette · #1 06-26-2015, 06:14 PM

That is the question...First post here, I mostly build electrics but have been doing more acoustics lately & recently picked up this old Harmony Sovereign. It was rode hard and glued up wet...which along with a few broken/missing braces left the guitar with a badly distorted top. It was dished by the soundhole and misaligned where a crack was glued near the center-line.

I removed the top and managed to separate the bad glue joint, remove the gobs of glue and flatten this mess:

I am now left with this. With the amount of distortion that the top received from the bad/missing braces, I am debating whether to:
1.Replace and re-glue missing braces and add a brace around the sound-hole to prevent more distortion
or
2.Go all out and X brace the thing. What do you think?

murrmac123 · #2 06-27-2015, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucksurette

2.Go all out and X brace the thing. What do you think?

Welcome to the forum.

There is no question in my mind that X bracing is the way to go.

It has been done many times to Harmony Sovereigns, and the end result is invariably a superior sounding instrument, according to those who have done the mod.

I have only heard and played one such instrument, and I hadn't heard it pre-mod, but it sounded great with the X bracing.

chucksurette · #3 06-27-2015, 08:14 AM

Thanks.

I do think x bracing will produce a superior (more stable) instrument.

My concern would be possible resale value. Do you think x bracing would improve the value of the guitar?

Ed-in-Ohio · #4 06-27-2015, 08:53 AM

Welcome!

You might find the great video below informative and helpful regarding your question.

I believe the old Sovereigns are best left as designed with ladder bracing, to preserve their unique character (which I think is beautifully shown in this video).

Let us know what you decide to do.

Ned Milburn · #5 06-27-2015, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucksurette

Thanks.

I do think x bracing will produce a superior (more stable) instrument.

My concern would be possible resale value. Do you think x bracing would improve the value of the guitar?

IMHO, you should not approach a project like yours with resale value in mind.

For some reason, some people like old Harmony and similar instruments, though most were never really built well in the first place.

If you want history, go to a museum. If you want a good playing guitar as a tool for music, then aim for that.

Define your goal. Do you want to "collect" the instrument as an investment?? If that is the case, you should probably aim for an old mint condition macafferi or similar. If your goal is to revitalize and improve a guitar that was likely never a great guitar, so thereby having a hybrid (a piece of living near-past history that plays and sounds decent), then aim for that.

repete · #6 06-27-2015, 04:12 PM

With so much correction you already needed to do to that top. it needs the best you can glue to it to keep it looking like a flat-top!

Even with the stock bracing these guitars frequently bellied.

PAY ATTENTION to the scale length. The bridge isnt in the right place on an original. When i did a neck reset I was floored by the amount I had to shorten the neck to fix that problem. You can just do it in your bracing design.

Have fun.

-r

chucksurette · #7 06-27-2015, 04:13 PM

Ed,
Thanks for the video. I have watched and listened to that one many times.
I am still undecided. I'm not big on *******izing vintage equipment, but with the work required to save/flatten the top on this guitar, I want to make sure it stays together for the next person that owns it. Most likely, that will not be me.

From what has been done to it already, this will not be a collector's instrument. It has a hole drilled in the side (pickup?) headstock looks to have been cracked, binding missing, etc... With that being said, this is still a solid wood guitar that for the most part is structurally sound.

The easiest route would be to reglue the braces, as they are almost all off at this point and reattach the top.

My concern is the stability of the instrument and the top. I guess you would have to see how warped it started out... I should have taken better pictures.

I appreciate the input and please keep the ideas coming.

Chuck

H165 · #8 06-27-2015, 04:27 PM

Some related info:

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforu...problems-stuff

chucksurette · #9 06-27-2015, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by repete

With so much correction you already needed to do to that top. it needs the best you can glue to it to keep it looking like a flat-top!

Even with the stock bracing these guitars frequently bellied.

PAY ATTENTION to the scale length. The bridge isnt in the right place on an original. When i did a neck reset I was floored by the amount I had to shorten the neck to fix that problem. You can just do it in your bracing design.

Have fun.

-r

Repete - Yes this one was bellied and dipped by the soundhole. If I left the bracing as is, I would still want to re-enforce the soundhole area.

How far off was your bridge placement? That's one thing that I have not looked into yet.

chucksurette · #10 06-27-2015, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H165

Some related info:

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforu...problems-stuff

165 - Wowsa! that guitar got some mods! Very nice. Thanks.

chucksurette · #11 06-27-2015, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned Milburn

Define your goal. Do you want to "collect" the instrument as an investment??

If your goal is to revitalize and improve a guitar that was likely never a great guitar, so thereby having a hybrid (a piece of living near-past history that plays and sounds decent), then aim for that.

Ned - This instrument will be repaired and hopefully sold. In an effort to learn more about the construction of acoustic guitars, I have sought out and taken in a number of basket cases. Long story short, they can't all stay.

I think a hybrid would turn out to be a more stable instrument and that's the way I'm leaning.

Ned Milburn · #12 06-27-2015, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucksurette

Ned - This instrument will be repaired and hopefully sold. In an effort to learn more about the construction of acoustic guitars, I have sought out and taken in a number of basket cases. Long story short, they can't all stay.

I think a hybrid would turn out to be a more stable instrument and that's the way I'm leaning.

Then I think you'll want to try to make the best sounding and most stable (over the long run) guitar as possible to ensure its highest value possible.

Ed-in-Ohio · #13 06-28-2015, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucksurette

Ed,
Thanks for the video. I have watched and listened to that one many times.
...snip...
I appreciate the input and please keep the ideas coming.
Chuck

No problem! I look forward to hearing what you decide to do.
Just an FYI, my Regal R235 Sovereign was given a replacement Rosewood pin bridge at some point, and I am really glad it was.

chucksurette · #14 06-28-2015, 08:55 PM

[QUOTE=Ed-in-Ohio;4549454]No problem! I look forward to hearing what you decide to do.

I have been scouring my woodpile looking for straight-grained spruce...

Just an FYI, my Regal R235 Sovereign was given a replacement Rosewood pin bridge at some point, and I am really glad it was.

That's a nice looking guitar!

chucksurette · #15 07-04-2015, 07:00 AM

It's been a few days and the repairs to the top are almost completed. It was in pretty rough shape.

It's looking a bit better now most of the cracks have been closed up and the top seems to have flattened out sufficiently.

As the smaller repairs were completed the large center split has pulled together nicely. It will never be pretty, but it should be a solid joint.