#46
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can we please have a discussion like this about strings
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#47
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Hypthotical...
You take a job as a chemical engineer working on military projects. One of the items being developed is a high explosive. It is dangerous as it explodes at 120 degrees F. Your job is to insure it does not explode and take you and everyone in a 10 block radius with you. You have a choice of two thermometers to use in your work so you test them by bringing water to a boil 5 times and checking their readings. At your altitude, you know water boils at 207 degrees F. . The results are; Therm 1 Therm2 199.00 206.00 199.00 213.00 199.00 205.00 199.00 211.00 199.00 212.00 Which do you choose for your job? |
#48
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#49
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Well, first, I'd look for a new job. But that aside ...
If I can demonstrate that the discrepancy is linear, I'd much prefer thermometer #1. If it's nonlinear, all bets are off. It might be that the thermometer #1 is stuck at a reading of 119 or it might be that the reading is valid (measuring temperature) but in need of calibration. That's from one perspective. Others with different disciplinary backgrounds well might argue that it isn't valid because the reading is off.
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Bob DeVellis |
#50
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Boy, I hope not...
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Since it is estimated that only one person in 10,000 has perfect pitch, any attempt at trying to "perfectly" tune your guitar is wasted on the vast majority of people. So, the act of doing so is more a psychological comfort IMO, than it is an audible necessity. Funny, years ago--before digital tuners--folks simply tuned by ear or used a tuning fork and the music sounded just as great. Now, we have to measure to the "Nth" degree...just because we can.
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Martin 000-28EC '71 Harmony Buck Owens American Epiphone Inspired by Gibson J-45 Gold Tone PBR-D Paul Beard Signature Model resonator "Lean your body forward slightly to support the guitar against your chest, for the poetry of the music should resound in your heart." -Andrés Segovia |
#51
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But I agree with your second point! Phil
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Solo Fingerstyle CDs: Two Steps Forward, One Step Back (2021) One Size Does Not Fit All (2018) I play Crosby, Emerald, Larrivée, Lowden, Rainsong & Tacoma guitars. Check out my Guitar Website. See guitar photos & info at my Guitars page. |
#52
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Therm2 has a 2.36% error, which may or may not be acceptable. But, back to the original. Therm1 is precise, showing a constant 199 with 4.02% error, one can argue that it needs to be re-calibrated. So, re-calibrate and re-test and if that %e can be reduced, well there you have it. Precise results have now become accurate.
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Correlation does not imply causation. |
#53
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#54
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We have a friend with perfect pitch - based on memorizing middle C with A=440 tuning. She cannot stay in the room with a guitar which is tuned to itself, but not in tune with A=440. I'm not sure all perfect pitch is perfect… Not sure all those episodes of guitar tuned to a piano, or tuning fork were all that great. And the pianos which had not been tuned (which we tuned to) were pretty interesting too. Most of us adjusted... |
#55
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i don't agree with this. i know what you are talking about is the difference between well temperament and tweaking/sweetening a tuning for playing in a certain key. however, an inaccurate tuner isn't going to get a sweetened tuning, it's just going to be a less precise well temperament tuning. and to play in all keys, an accurate and precise well tempered tuning will be best. Quote:
me, too. i really enjoy threads like this that exercise the mind. Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision Last edited by mc1; 01-17-2014 at 05:43 PM. |
#56
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Regardless, in this case, I'd choose #1. But it would have to be calibrated to account for the 8F offset in the results. #1 is more "precise" (closer to each other) based on the definition as used in measurement theory. #2 is more "accurate" (closer to the actual value) based on the definition as used in measurement theory.
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侘 寂 -- wabi-sabi -- acceptance of transience and imperfection by finding beauty in that which is imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete |
#57
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The diagram in the OP is a standard demonstration of the difference between accuracy and precision in a measurement instrument. If you insist on thinking of a rifle as a measurement instrument, then what you demand is both precision and accuracy: you want your rifle to hit within a certain distance of the point of aim every time you fire. That's equivalent to demanding that your thermometer register within a certain fraction of a degree of the correct temperature in a single measurement. A rifle that has the desired level of precision can be made accurate by adjusting its sights. An imprecise rifle can never be relied upon to hit a small target far away with a single shot, no matter how carefully you adjust its sights. That does not make it 'inaccurate' in the measurement sense. An accurate but imprecise thermometer cannot be relied upon to deliver the correct temperature with a single reading (analogous to a rifle shot). The same thermometer can give an excellent measurement of the correct temperature by taking many readings and averaging them. You don't typically have the luxury of averaging your 'measurements' with a rifle.
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Herb Proud owner of only one guitar --- https://soundcloud.com/bucc5207 "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, 1966 Last edited by Bucc5207; 01-17-2014 at 05:18 PM. |
#58
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With apologies to MenotGordon.
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Herb Proud owner of only one guitar --- https://soundcloud.com/bucc5207 "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, 1966 |
#59
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Tuners eh like these tuning knots, I'm not sure of the ratio but there very precise
here he is playing http://www.mamadoukora.com/
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#60
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Tuners typically have accuracy to "XX cents" AND a calibration adjustment to zero it against a known value. If the variation is too great and is unpredictable, calibration is not possible. |