12 Fret Dread - Engelmann on Black Walnut

FingahPickah · #1 02-26-2021, 08:35 PM

I've become familiar with the work of a local builder in NH who studied under a master-luthier in Japan. He's done some re-frets, a few miscellaneous repairs and converted a Yamaha FS800 to a mandocello for me with great results. I've played a few of his builds - i.e, an ALL spruce (top, back & sides) OM - that's right ALL spruce - a finger-stylist's dream - as well as a cedar top / mahogany B & S dread - big sound. Needless to say I'm impressed.

Yesterday we spoke on the phone about a couple of recently completed builds: a 12 fret Engelmann top / Black Walnut back & sides with a hand-rubbed sunburst caught my attention.

Pretty excited to try it out this weekend. I've played some nice sounding walnut guitars - not a lot of experience with Engelmann spruce tops though... Most of my guitars are Sitka. I realize there are many contributing factors to the overall sound (bracing, back & sides pairing, etc).

Anyone own or have played Engelmann top dreads? What are your thoughts?

llew · #2 02-27-2021, 07:06 AM

Engelmann will probably fall between Sitka and Cedar I'd imagine. Should pair nicely with Black Walnut. 12 fret dreads make great fingerstyle guitars. Granted...they are big but they come with a big voice!

boneuphtoner · #3 02-27-2021, 08:30 AM

Two weeks ago I tried a 12-fret dread for the first time ever and it was a game changer for me - for those wanting a big warm fingerstyle sound across the range, I haven’t seen anything yet that comes close.

llew · #4 02-27-2021, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneuphtoner

Two weeks ago I tried a 12-fret dread for the first time ever and it was a game changer for me - for those wanting a big warm fingerstyle sound across the range, I haven’t seen anything yet that comes close.

Yep...couldn't agree more!

FOG01 · #5 02-27-2021, 08:41 AM

I have an engelmann spruce topped GA (rosewood b/s). Tone wise, it shares a lot of space with sitka, but does have a slightly softer, more open sound. FWIW I can strum it fairly agressively without it becoming muddy.

Comparatively, I had owned a cedar/hog GA for a minute and then a euro spruce/hog GA, both of which were sold off after I realized they were a little softer than what I was looking for (not to say I wouldn't like to have kept them all, but it wasn't in the cards). The engelmann fits in the sweet spot for me and isn't going anywhere. Good luck and enjoy the test drive.

DukeX · #6 02-27-2021, 12:41 PM

My first Larrivee (D-03) had Engelmann spruce. It's supposed to less bright and have a more pronounced midrange. I personally seem prefer it (or cedar) over Sitka. And I'll bet that 12 fret Engelmann top / Black Walnut back & sides with a hand-rubbed sunburst looks and sounds sublime!

zombywoof · #7 02-27-2021, 12:44 PM

I play a Fairbanks Roy Smeck so 12 frets and a non-tapered 16" mahogany body and red spruce top. But what makes it stand out as a fingerpicker is the Old School Gibson 1 3/4" nut and 2 3/8" string spread at the bridge. When it comes to fingerpicking for me the "feel" of the more generous spacing is very noticeable. While you would not think a difference even as small as 1/16" would make a difference it does.

FingahPickah · #8 02-27-2021, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOG01

I have an engelmann spruce topped GA (rosewood b/s). Tone wise, it shares a lot of space with sitka, but does have a slightly softer, more open sound. FWIW I can strum it fairly agressively without it becoming muddy.
The engelmann fits in the sweet spot for me and isn't going anywhere. Good luck and enjoy the test drive.

I tend to drive my two dreads pretty hard - Sitka/Maple (mid and treb focus) and Sitka/Rosewood (bass and treb focus) They're loud and clear (maple mids .. rosewood bass) with a lot of sustain..

It's encouraging to hear that you don't consider Engelmann too soft... I am all about an open sound ...

FingahPickah · #9 02-27-2021, 09:25 PM

All replies are appreciated. I plan to play the guitar tomorrow (Sunday) ...

I'm sold on black walnut ..... the Engelmann top on a sloped dread body should offer a big, warm voice .. I think the true test will be the versatility ..including how well this top performs with some aggressive strumming and flatpicking as well as finger-picking.

The "general" consensus seems to be that Engelmann tends to have less headroom as Adi or Sitka.. and is often considered more suitable for smaller guitars but factors like bracing can affect that ... the builder said he deliberately scalloped less to add some stiffness... but still promote vibration/openness ... If it gets muddy (when the spirit moves me) ... it might not be for me..

It's ironic to an extent that my Eastman AC108ce is a small Grand Concert (Taylor-GC-size) with an Adi top on Sapele - which I do use primarily for finger-style.

I'm excited to check it out.. All of my guitars have their own voice. I got a good feeling about this one... I'll know soon... Will post an update...

s2y · #10 02-28-2021, 07:33 AM

I imagine it will have an interesting and unique tone. Play it as well as stand a 6+ feet away while someone plays it for the best sound.

FingahPickah · #11 02-28-2021, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FingahPickah

All replies are appreciated. I plan to play the guitar tomorrow (Sunday) ...

I'm sold on black walnut ..... the Engelmann top on a sloped dread body should offer a big, warm voice .. I think the true test will be the versatility ..including how well this top performs with some aggressive strumming and flatpicking as well as finger-picking.

The "general" consensus seems to be that Engelmann tends to have less headroom as Adi or Sitka.. and is often considered more suitable for smaller guitars but factors like bracing can affect that ... the builder said he deliberately scalloped less to add some stiffness... but still promote vibration/openness ... If it gets muddy (when the spirit moves me) ... it might not be for me..

It's ironic to an extent that my Eastman AC108ce is a small Grand Concert (Taylor-GC-size) with an Adi top on Sapele - which I do use primarily for finger-style.

I'm excited to check it out.. All of my guitars have their own voice. I got a good feeling about this one... I'll know soon... Will post an update...

Played it today... stunning looks, smooth-satin comfy-size neck and awesome tone ... and NO muddiness when pushed - Adirondack, semi-scalloped, non-parallel bracing - but I did notice the light gauge (.012-.053) 80/20 strings felt really light - the ONLY concern is the string spacing is a bit tight. Nut width is a bit narrow (1 11/16" ) .. almost all of my 6 string acoustics are 1 3/4" - except my '73 Guild dread which I've had for 45 years and love - it also has a 1 11/16 nut - but I use slightly higher tension strings (D'Addario EJ19) on it and it feels better - I passed on the guitar for now to think about it... I might go back with my own strings to try on it...

buddyhu · #12 02-28-2021, 04:12 PM

Sounds like you may have made your decision

I have a Webber jumbo (small jumbo size, though) with Engelmann over Curly Walnut. It is a fabulous guitar. A delight to fingerpick. It has a 1 and 3/4 nut, so I can appreciate why you were reluctant to buy a guitar for fingerpicking that has a more narrow nut.

I love the wood combo. I don’t know if it is the woods used, or other factors, but it isn’t a beast in regards to volume. Certainly loud enough though.

FingahPickah · #13 02-28-2021, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddyhu

Sounds like you may have made your decision

I have a Webber jumbo (small jumbo size, though) with Engelmann over Curly Walnut. It is a fabulous guitar. A delight to fingerpick. It has a 1 and 3/4 nut, so I can appreciate why you were reluctant to buy a guitar for fingerpicking that has a more narrow nut.

I love the wood combo. I don’t know if it is the woods used, or other factors, but it isn’t a beast in regards to volume. Certainly loud enough though.

It was hard to walk away. It had a beautiful voice. No lack of volume, but not what I would call loud in comparison to my Martin D40.

Basically a 60's J-45 body with a 12 fret neck.. was very comfortable (seated)..

True I'm still looking over my shoulder without closing the door...

llew · #14 02-28-2021, 07:02 PM

I use 12's on my 12 fret Martin D-28 Herringbone (a Gruhn copy of the '36 model they had in shop) and it's great. A set of 13's seems to choke it down...go figure?

FingahPickah · #15 06-28-2021, 05:13 PM

I never quite got that 12 fret Engelmann top/Black Walnut (back, sides and neck) dread out of my mind completely. Visited the builder today; brought in my Guild dread to get fitted with a new bone nut. He still has the 12 fret (been playing it himself). I asked to play it again.... Oh boy..... he had just put on new strings and tweaked the set-up. Oooohhhh boy.. Plays and sounds awesome... very different voice from my other guitars... warm, crisp and no lack of volume or headroom (perhaps a-typical for Engelmann) .... beautiful hand-rubbed tobacco-ish sunburst.... and then....as a little bead of sweat formed on my forehead..... it happened.... He said: "Take it home and play it a while. If you decide you want it we can work something out."
.... I bet you guess the rest of this serendipitous story.