Reeves Custom 12 PS - speaker cab options?

[pete12string]

New amp shopping. I need a second amp for home use and think I've decided on the Reeves Custom 12 PS (Power Scaling) Head. It's 12 watts, with a single 12AX7 and two EL84s.
I'd like to go with a 1x12 cabintet and so far Avatar seems to be the best that I can find. A $279 price tag gets me a selection of the following speakers:

Celestion
Vintage 30
G12H30
G12T75
Greenback
Classic Lead 80
Hellatone 30
Hellatone 60
G12K100

Eminence
Governors
Wizards
Private Jacks
Swamp Thangs

I'm looking for a "tight" low end and no "ice pick" highs. Based on the above speaker selections, what do you recommend? Or are there other options you think I should look at?

Thanks!
Pete

[mikealpine]

I don't know anythng about Celestion, but I can attest for the people at Eminence. I've been trying to buy an inexpensive amp and put in a decent speaker, and those folks have bent over backwards to be helpful and resourceful. Their speakers get great reviews. Of the ones you listed, I like the Swamp Thang.

Another company that gets good reviews and my interactions with them have been pleasant as well, is Warehouse Guitar Speakers. www.wgs4.com
They have a G12C/S that might be a good fit for you.



If you listen to and like the Eminence Cannabis Rex, just letting you know I have a nearly new one that I am looking to sell because it doesn't fit into the amp I initially bought it for. I'd sell it for $65, shipped and PayPal'd. I just don't need it, unfortunately.

Good luck!!

[terrapin]

Man I think either Celestion G12H30 Anniversary or Austin Speaker Works Crossroads. Actually one of each in a 2X12! I bet that amp of yours KILLS! I would love to have that amp or a Fargen Mini-Plex V2.

[Steve DeRosa]

Ditto Mike on the Swamp Thang - it's like they were made for EL84-powered amps, and it'll definitely bring out the Hiwatt heritage in your rig...

[terrapin]

Just me, but I would never put a Swamp Thang in an EL84 amp. Just does not have a British vibe to it.

[pete12string]

Leaning towards Celestion Greenbacks or G12H30's.
Had Greenbacks in a Marshall 4x12 cabinet back in the 70's and I remember really loving the sound.
I like what I'm hearing from YouTube videos on the G12H30 - seemed a bit more rounded than the Greenbacks, but that's YouTube videos.
Also kind of liked the Eminence Private Jack in the videos although it sounded a little "stiff". Would love to be able to test them both side by side.

Looking for lots of midrange punch, nice tight low end (no boomy bottom!), and smooth highs. Early breakup is probably best for me - I like a bit if dirt even when it's "clean".

[Steve DeRosa]

Got a Swamp Thang in my Bugera V22, Russ - and, like Mike, I swear by Eminence. FWIW, although EL84's have come to be associated with "British" tone (thanks in no small part to the Vox AC30/15) a number of American makers used them (USA nomenclature was 6BQ5 or, in their heavy-duty industrial version, 7189) back in the late '50s through mid-'60s, so there's a home-grown heritage as well. To my ears (YMMV) I always found Hiwatts to be fuller, rounder, smoother, and less edgy-sounding than most Marshalls (notable exception being my one and only experience with a 200W Major), with a higher threshold of power-tube distortion - in a word, American tone filtered through a UK sensibility. While I'll admit I have no hands-on experience with the Reeves the lineage is clear, and the Swamp Thang complements the traditional Hiwatt characteristics; bearing in mind that OP Pete was looking specifically for tight low end (which the ST has in spades) and no "ice pick" (his term) highs, he describes the ST perfectly - and pretty much rules out the British speakers...

BTW Pete, Eminence speakers take a while to break in - we're talking 25-50 hours at moderate volume before they begin to exhibit their full tonal potential - so I'm not surprised you found the Private Jack a little stiff-sounding. Since you're looking at the Redcoat line you might also want to check out the Tonker - sounds like it's got the mid punch and smooth highs you're after...

[terrapin]

I love Eminence speakers also, and have a Red Coat/Red Fang in my custom Fargen AC15. I just think " British voiced" speakers sound better with EL84's. The reason companies like Fender started using EL84's in some of their amps has more to do with availability of decent tubes. New production 6V6's..are notoriously lousy tubes. There are still lots of available NOS EL84's. I was told this by Joe Morgan from Morgan Amps. Joe HATES new production 6V6's, 6L6's..

[pete12string]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Got a Swamp Thang in my Bugera V22, Russ - and, like Mike, I swear by Eminence. FWIW, although EL84's have come to be associated with "British" tone (thanks in no small part to the Vox AC30/15) a number of American makers used them (USA nomenclature was 6BQ5 or, in their heavy-duty industrial version, 7189) back in the late '50s through mid-'60s, so there's a home-grown heritage as well. To my ears (YMMV) I always found Hiwatts to be fuller, rounder, smoother, and less edgy-sounding than most Marshalls (notable exception being my one and only experience with a 200W Major), with a higher threshold of power-tube distortion - in a word, American tone filtered through a UK sensibility. While I'll admit I have no hands-on experience with the Reeves the lineage is clear, and the Swamp Thang complements the traditional Hiwatt characteristics; bearing in mind that OP Pete was looking specifically for tight low end (which the ST has in spades) and no "ice pick" (his term) highs, he describes the ST perfectly - and pretty much rules out the British speakers...

BTW Pete, Eminence speakers take a while to break in - we're talking 25-50 hours at moderate volume before they begin to exhibit their full tonal potential - so I'm not surprised you found the Private Jack a little stiff-sounding. Since you're looking at the Redcoat line you might also want to check out the Tonker - sounds like it's got the mid punch and smooth highs you're after...

Hey Steve,

I used to live on Staten Island - moved in 1999. Grew up in Rosebank/Fort Wadworth and later lived in Randall Manor right down the street from Mandolin Brothers!

Thanks for the great description of the Swamp Thang and Eminence in general. I'm trying to stick with what Avatar offers for $279 in their 1x12 cabs. I could always get an empty cab for $229 and load whatever speaker I want - just that $279 sounds like a great deal for a loaded 1x12 cab!

Does the Swamp Thang (or the Private Jack) have that midrange punch? The midrange is what draws me to the Greenbacks, but I don't like the idea that the "new" Greenbacks are made in China - the Heritage G12M (Greenback) is made in England but costs about $100 more than the Chinese Greenback. Eminence is made in USA, right?

Thanks,
Pete

[terrapin]

Steve, what US makers used EL84's in the late 50's and early 60's? I don't know of any. Certainly not Fender, Gibson, Magnatone...Pete's tight bottom end an no ice-pick highs also totally describes the 75hz version of the Celestion G12H30-Anniversary.

[Steve DeRosa]

Actually, Russ, Gibson did use EL84's in some of their lower-powered amps (the exact models escape me at the moment); if you do the garage-sale circuit (no pun intended) or prowl small-town pawn shops and music stores, they still turn up once in a while (BTW, the tube chart will say 6BQ5, not EL84 - same tube, different name). I've also seen/played Sano amps from the early '60s with EL84/6BQ5 power tubes (most of which were push-pull cathode-bias: 2xEL84/5Y3 rectifier, ~15W), played in a band 30 years ago with a guy who had a no-name mid-60s head/2x12" rig (looked like a USA Univox) fitted with six EL84's , and I understand that Danelectro and Supro used them in some of their contract-production/private-label amps as well (don't quote me on this one); truth is, EL84's have become so closely linked with "British" tone that many players don't realize that there's a whole other set of useful sounds to be achieved. You mention the dearth of good-quality 6V6 tubes (I'm 150% with you on that one), but what isn't too widely known is that certain 7189 tubes (particularly the Soviet-era, JAN-equivalent military production) can, as you suggest, serve as a highly viable alternative to both the 6V6 and 7591 for manufacturers/players seeking a more "American" tonality (SLM/Ampeg used EL84's in their '64 top-panel Jet reissue of about ten years ago - the originals had either 6V6 or 7591 tubes); I've got a high-headroom set in my Bugera V22 and, in tandem with the Swamp Thang, it does a nice job of nailing the circa-'66 NYC studio "key club" Ampeg Gemini II/B-12XT tone (and volume - it'll easily hang with my '65 Super RI) - and that's about as USA as it comes ...

I'm a transplanted Brooklynite, Pete, and still am at heart - grew up one block from L&B Spumoni Gardens (the Island guys still can't cop their pizza mojo), lived in Bensonhurst for 50 years, still work there. Living a few blocks from the Restoration these days (played their Tavern Concert Series in '95, still attend every year), do most of my odds-&-ends gear shopping at Castellano's, make it to MandoBros (known Stan for 35+ years) when time and liquid finances permit accommodating potential GAS attacks (for my wife - and performing partner for 45+ years - it has, on occasion, become her "Nightmare Realization Center")...

[terrapin]

Thanks Steve. Very interesting. Speaking of new production 6V6's. I have a Morgan copy of a '65 Deluxe Reverb, and Joe Morgan and I used my amp as a project to TRY to find decent power tubes and tried most every new production tube available and they all totally sucked compared to our reference tubes which were military production Raytheons. The difference is HUGE.

I recently put East German Military RFT EL84's in my AC15 and the amp just came to life! I have a hard time using new production tubes at all. Preamp or Power. Fortunately I have several Audiophile friends who supplied me with Mullard and Telefunken 12AX7's and EF86's.

We have kinda stolen this Thread from the original post, but it is fun. Pete, I still want to hear clips of that Reeves amp! It is so ironic that some of the best amps of all time are being built today, but the builders struggle to find decent tubes for them??? Joe Morgan orders JJ 6V6's in huge lots and told me he returns close to 60%!

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by terrapin

...Joe Morgan and I used my amp as a project to TRY to find decent power tubes and tried most every new production tube available, and they all totally sucked compared to our reference tubes which were military production Raytheons. The difference is HUGE...I recently put East German Military RFT EL84's in my AC15 and the amp just came to life! I have a hard time using new production tubes at all. Preamp or Power. Fortunately I have several Audiophile friends who supplied me with Mullard and Telefunken 12AX7's and EF86's...It is so ironic that some of the best amps of all time are being built today, but the builders struggle to find decent tubes for them...Joe Morgan orders JJ 6V6's in huge lots and told me he returns close to 60%!

Not really stealin', Russ, it's all about good tone - which I can safely say all three of us agree on - and we're just bringing in another variable in the sonic equation; FWIW, over the course of 50 years playing electric I've discovered that certain amps/circuits "like" certain speakers, strange as it may seem. I've got a JBL E-120 sitting in my basement waiting for a project, that's been in and out of three different amps in its 35-year lifespan: the very same speaker that made a buddy's silverface Deluxe Reverb sing like Pavarotti's parakeet for jazz and surf, and turned my old Peavey Bandit 65 into a rock monster that did double duty as an acoustic amp, made the near-mint Ampeg top-panel Rocket I've owned since 6th grade (trem/no reverb; 2x6SL7/2x7591/5Y3 May '64 R-12A circuit) sound dead and lifeless (we're talking about arguably the best speaker money could buy back in the late '70s)...

Since you've brought up your experience with mil-spec tubes you might find these of interest:

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/JAN-Military

http://www.thetubestore.com/6V6-Tube-Review

http://www.thetubestore.com/JAN-Philips-6V6GT

http://www.thetubestore.com/EL84-Tube-Review

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/EL.../RFT-EL84-6BQ5

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/EL...9-Premium-EL84

BTW, these guys are dead-on in their evaluations; I bought a high-power/headroom set of the Preferred Series 7189's simply on the basis of their review, and it was exactly the sound I envisioned - and they're an absolute pleasure to deal with in terms of service. If you and your buddy are doing the Deluxe thing, you might want to look into a few sets of those JAN tubes (I understand that they offer builder's lot pricing - check it out) - I'm thinking of getting a set of 6188's myself, for the preamp stage of my Ampeg...

Ain't life grand...

[terrapin]

I actually had a pair of the Preferred Series EL84's in my AC15 and they were nice, but a bit too dark for my taste. I sent them back and the Tube Store recommended the TAD STR's which I really liked and keep a set for backup. The RFT's are simply magic in my amp which has an EF86 preamplifier (I use RFT EF86's too). Something about the mil spec stuff is just special.

[mikealpine]

Just installed the Cannabis Rex into an old Crate 30W, and it sounds really nice, but I wish I had a treble control on the overdrive channel...it is a "dark" sounding speaker, so it really wouldn't be the way to go. I will say that it makes the Piezo pickup sound really awesome. And, as Steve has pointed out, the speaker is a loooooooong way from being broken in and hitting its natural sound, so I'm looking forward to hearing how it evolves.