Dynamic mics vs condensors....

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by JeffreyAK

Actually I mean the word in exactly the sense that you defined it above, "It is simply a measurement of the amount of gain the mic needs to reach a common/standard output voltage." By this definition, the KM184 is much more sensitive than the SM57, though it wouldn't matter as long as you are able to add more gain to the SM57, and as long as doing so would not degrade performance in other ways.

I therefore misread your sentence. Sorry about that.

[rschultz]

All great points, I agree that condensers are better for recording guitars.

Question: It seems that a decent dynamic mic (i.e. SM58, etc) would do a decent job for recording vocals... at least better than it would recording a guitar. Is this true, and if so, why?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by rschultz

Question: It seems that a decent dynamic mic (i.e. SM58, etc) would do a decent job for recording vocals... at least better than it would recording a guitar. Is this true, and if so, why?

I don't think it's true and for the same reasons that it's not true with guitars. In general, dynamic mics won't provide the same level of detail as a condenser, and they usually cannot reproduce the same full low end or a sonically pleasant top end.

I know there are some who love the Shure SM7B for vocals so that might be an exception; however, those who I know that have used it have told me it's a mic that will work really well on some people but not well at all on others. That's not a knock on the mic as it's something that is true of many microphones (there's a reason top studios have a large selection of microphones).

Someone with more experience than me can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing a dynamic mic on vocals has a better chance of working in a large mix where you're catching high end silk and a solid low end from other sources. I think it's less likely to be a good choice in a sparse mix (acoustic guitar and vocal, for example) because the deficiencies of the mic will become too apparent.

[pieterh]

Positioning is everything as many have already said.

I have used dynamic mics on recordings but only when going direct out of live shows. If I know I am going to be recording the gig I'll tend to use mics that will do a good job of both - I was pleasantly surprised at how well the Sennheiser e945 sounded on the recordings for example. Often I will use dpa vocal mics but then they more than three times the cost of the Sennheiser or Shure B58.

For recording instruments or vocals though condensers are the way to go. If you have access to a large diaphragm mic for vocals and even for the guitar it's worth trying in combination with a small diaphragm mic - but here I defer to Doug Young who has expertise I can only try to aspire to!

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

People who play very quietly are very hard to record without noise, since the noises may be as loud as they play. I was once in a workshop with Laurence Juber, and someone asked him how he managed to never squeak. He said, "I squeak all the time, but I play loud, so you don't notice, because the notes are so much louder than the squeaks".

I one recorded a classical guitarist from Peabody who was, well, snobby. I gave him a CD copy of the piece he did so he could hear it elsewhere. He emailed saying there was something wrong with my recording at a certain point into the piece. Something wrong with my equipment. I listened and emailed back, "No, that's you breathing."

I'm very grateful that we didn't work together after that.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Steev]

OK here's my handful of worms for the can.

A SM58 has a few +dB bump from around 3kHz to 7kHz which can enhance (to some listeners) some vocals and instruments. Bjork and Bono are just a couple of singers who have, or their producers have, decided to use a sm58s on some pretty impressive vocal recordings. Admittedly they aren't solo guitar recordings...

Being a dynamic mic, it isn't as sensitive as most condensers but that can make it a great mic for recording in less than ideal locations because it won't pick up as much background ambience, reflections, kids in the next room, traffic etc.

Shure* a 58 is not going to give you as much high frequency sparkle as most condensers but a lot of guitars and voices don't have a great deal of overtones up there anyway, and it's noise floor is probably quieter than a lot of cheap condensers.

If you have a great performance nobody is going to care if it was recorded with a Neumann or an iPhone.

*

[rschultz]

Steev's comments make s lot of sense. And it seems to me that a guitar has a lot more percussive type high frequency stuff than the human voice. But I'm a recording novice, just here to learn from everyone else

[JeffreyAK]

This is interesting too, the audio spectrum from a small bit of what I was playing.

This is the Shure SM57,
Capture2.jpg

This is the Neumann KM184,
Capture1.jpg

You can see the low frequencies below 100 Hz are suppressed by the SM57, and the higher frequencies around 6-7 kHz are boosted, compared with the (relatively flat-response) KM184, accounting for the difference in sound EQ. The SM57 also cuts off pretty abruptly at 16 kHz, while the KM184 keeps going past 20 kHz into mouse communication territory. There are real differences in the 1-2 kHz range too, which is a bit puzzling but perhaps caused by the higher noise with the SM57.

Here, by the way, are the amplitude vs. time tracks. The real (low) signals are at about 1% of the peaks (not shown), but are real and audible and are tracked by the KM184. The SM57 is just noise at that amplitude level.

Capture3.jpg

Capture4.jpg

[TBman]

I think I'll just pick up a Zoom H5 and give these mics a rest. If it goes well I'll just sell the gear I'm not using to GC for store credit,