How is your action being set? (Low vs high action discuss)

[Rinaz]

I’m relatively new to guitar and still have a lot more to learn. I currently have a new Epiphone Masterbilt DR-500MCE. The problem is the action of my guitar at the 12 fret from the fingerboard to the middle of the string is 5mm and its been set up with plek’d. I think it’s high because The action hurts my fingers a lot when I do barre chord, maybe because I’m a beginner, but I never tried the lower action ones so I have no clue.

Is 5mm at 12 frets from the fretboard to middle of the string high action to you?
Is 3mm at 12 frets is too low?
Does average/high action have better sound quality than low action?
What’s the lowest action do you think that playable for both fingerstyle and strumming?
Is set up with plek’d(a computer) good?

Share your experience would be appreciated.

[Brucebubs]

I like to strum and do a little finger picking.
I measure string height like these 2 pictures,



I read this as just over 2.0mm but under 2.5mm .... so around 2.25mm at the 12th fret.

[Rinaz]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

I like to strum and do a little finger picking.
I measure string height like this picture,



I read this as just over 2.0mm but under 2.5mm .... so around 2.25mm at the 12th fret.

That’s pretty low do you have any fret buzz when you strumming it??

[Alathea]

Some of that is being new. If you drop the action too far every humidity change will have a string buzzing somewhere. The action of an acoustic is set by a combination of the neck curve, the depth of the nut slots and the height of the saddle. Yours seems a little high but that depends. You want about a credit card or so thickness between the string and the top of the fret, maybe a little higher, but when you measure are you measuring with the strings capo’d or not? What style and type of songs do you play? What gauge strings? It’s a factor.

[3notes]

Originally Posted by Rinaz

That’s pretty low do you have any fret buzz when you strumming it??

I'll answer this for you.... No. He doesn't have any strings buzzing at that height. The guy has THOUSANDS of posts here. No question, he doesn't have a buzz.

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by Rinaz

That’s pretty low do you have any fret buzz when you strumming it??

No, and I'm a fairly firm strummer.
Here's the string height on my red Guild 12-string guitar.



I think it's about the same as my 6 strings.
I notice that I have virtually no marks on any of my pick guards so I must have a rather flat strumming technique maybe?

[Rinaz]

Originally Posted by Alathea

Some of that is being new. If you drop the action too far every humidity change will have a string buzzing somewhere. The action of an acoustic is set by a combination of the neck curve, the depth of the nut slots and the height of the saddle. Yours seems a little high but that depends. You want about a credit card or so thickness between the string and the top of the fret, maybe a little higher, but when you measure are you measuring with the strings capo’d or not? What style and type of songs do you play? What gauge strings? It’s a factor.

No I’m not using a capo And I play pop music mostly and fingerstyle. The humidity shouldn’t be matter to me because I keep it in my room and have humidifier so its always in the 45-55 range. Gauge string 0.12 -0.52.

I’ve heard that lower action may reduce sound quality and the string that I use so im trying to seek for options to lower the action with the best string. I want the good sound quality but my beginner hands say no . Should I lower the action and use light string or just keep the action and use thicker string then from your experience

[Rinaz]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

No, and I'm a fairly firm strummer.
Here's the string height on my red Guild 12-string guitar.



I think it's about the same as my 6 strings.
I notice that I have virtually no marks on any of my pick guards so I must have a rather flat strumming technique maybe?

What should I do to lower the action but not affecting the sound quality? i want good sound quality but my hand hurts do I lower action and and use light string or keep the action and use thicker string? Thats all I could think of

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by Rinaz

What should I do to lower the action but not affecting the sound quality? i want good sound quality but my hand hurts do I lower action and and use light string or keep the action and use thicker string? Thats all I could think of

Why do you think lowering the action would degrade the sound quality?

[TBman]

Lowing the "action" is more than just adjusting the saddle. The relief, nut and saddle have to be looked at and an experienced luthier will also evaluate the neck angle too.

I set up most of my guitars myself, but I got darn lucky and didn't mess any up worse than what they were to start with.

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by TBman

Lowing the "action" is more than just adjusting the saddle. The relief, nut and saddle have to be looked at and an experienced luthier will also evaluate the neck angle too.

I set up most of my guitars myself, but I got darn lucky and didn't mess any up worse than what they were to start with.

I was so frightened of going too far and ruining a good original saddle that I found it easier to make a bone copy myself and work on that.
In a way that's led to me being quite comfortable making replacement bone saddles for all my guitars.

Now nuts .... that's another story, I get the pro's to slot them and set them up.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by Rinaz

I’m relatively new to guitar and still have a lot more to learn. I currently have a new Epiphone Masterbilt DR-500MCE. The problem is the action of my guitar at the 12 fret from the fingerboard to the middle of the string is 5mm and its been set up with plek’d. I think it’s high because The action hurts my fingers a lot when I do barre chord, maybe because I’m a beginner, but I never tried the lower action ones so I have no clue.

Is 5mm at 12 frets from the fretboard to middle of the string high action to you?
Is 3mm at 12 frets is too low?
Does average/high action have better sound quality than low action?
What’s the lowest action do you think that playable for both fingerstyle and strumming?
Is set up with plek’d(a computer) good?

Share your experience would be appreciated.

String-height should be measured from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string - Brucebubs’ photos are a perfect demonstration of how to measure string-height.

A generally accepted ‘good’ starting point to aim for is ‘three and two’ - 3/32” on the bass E string and 2/32” on the treble E. That’s 2.5mm Bass E, 1.6mm treble E. Some players find they can work with slightly lower numbers, some prefer slightly higher, it all depends on the individual’s playing style and skill-level and, as your playing and experience progress, those basic starting-point numbers can be ‘tweaked’ to your own preference - for instance, I personally prefer 3/32” and 5/64”, (2.5mm and 2mm) at the 12th fret.

BUT, it’s not just a case of adjusting the height of the saddle to reduce 12th-fret string-height - there are other factors to consider. Set-up is a combination of three factors, which need to be set accurately in order to get the most comfortable action...

1) Neck relief - the amount of forward bow in the neck, usually in the range 0.004” to 0.010”.
2) Nut-slot height - should be set to the height of the first fret, or very slightly (a few thousandths of an inch) higher. As Bruce said above, that is a job for the professionals, not for a beginner!
3) Saddle height - depends on the other two factors and the required 12th-fret action height.

You say you are ‘relatively new to guitar’. It’s very easy for an enthusiastic beginner to make a mess of doing his/her own set-up. My advice would be to take your guitar to a good set-up technician or a luthier, and have a proper set-up done. It would be worth asking if you can watch the process, and have him/her explain what they are doing and why - many techs are happy to go through the process with the owner - which might put you on the road to developing the skills to do your own set-ups in the future.

With regard to your question about ‘sound quality’ and action-height, that’s a topic of never-ending debate. But one fact is for sure - your guitar will sound far better when you have the action set up to give you good playing comfort than it does when you’re fighting with an action that’s too high and makes the guitar painful to play!

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

I was so frightened of going too far and ruining a good original saddle that I found it easier to make a bone copy myself and work on that.
In a way that's led to me being quite comfortable making replacement bone saddles for all my guitars.

Now nuts .... that's another story, I get the pro's to slot them and set them up.

Nuts were scary to work on because if I messed up, I knew have to buy a new one. I bought a set of nut files and one of those "Fret Rockers" which is really a short straight edge that you push up against the nut to mark the top of the fret. I added a hair or two up (only because I watched a video one time and the luthier marked it up higher too). I took my time and I got lucky.

To the OP:

If your guitar plays a ton easier when you put a capo on the first fret, that's a sure sign that it needs more than the saddle adjusted.

[PetesaHut]

Originally Posted by Rinaz

I’m relatively new to guitar and still have a lot more to learn. I currently have a new Epiphone Masterbilt DR-500MCE. The problem is the action of my guitar at the 12 fret from the fingerboard to the middle of the string is 5mm and its been set up with plek’d. I think it’s high because The action hurts my fingers a lot when I do barre chord, maybe because I’m a beginner, but I never tried the lower action ones so I have no clue.

Is 5mm at 12 frets from the fretboard to middle of the string high action to you?
Is 3mm at 12 frets is too low?
Does average/high action have better sound quality than low action?
What’s the lowest action do you think that playable for both fingerstyle and strumming?
Is set up with plek’d(a computer) good?

Share your experience would be appreciated.

I currently have a new Epiphone Masterbilt DR-500MCE also, its been Pleked and I have a little under 2.5mm at the 12th fret. That's how arrived from the GC. I play fingerstyle 90% of the time and generally, it has been fine. I live in an area of swinging RH humidity, mostly high and had problems with fret buzz. A minor truss rod adjustment and humidity packs has been helpful.

[mirwa]

2mm or 80 thou approx is the action height at the 12th fret I set acoustic guitars up too. 5mm is a ridiculous height, take it back.

Steve