Baritone tuning on standard resonator?

celticelk · #1 10-20-2014, 07:19 AM

Hi there! New poster here, with a question that I hope isn't too ridiculous. I'm primarily an electric player, but I've been bitten kinda hard by the folk/blues fingerstyle bug and want to have a go at working out some material on a metal-bodied resonator. The catch is that I play primarily 7-strings and want to stay in that lower register, but I'm not so sure that this will be a fruitful direction for me that I feel comfortable dropping $3k on a baritone National. I'm used to the idea that electrics - even hollowbodies - can be tuned down into that range (B-B, let's say) by using heavier strings to keep the tension consistent. Is there any good reason this *wouldn't* work with a decently-built import reso, like a Republic or Hot Rod? Has anyone tried it?

tdq · #2 10-20-2014, 12:44 PM

I don't play baritone, so not an expert, and I'm not one to obsess about string tension unless it's really bad - but I can't see it being a problem. I occasionally tune down to C (CGCGCE) with standard strings and yes the bass C is a bit loose but it still works. If you use higher gauge strings it should be ok. There are also baritone resonators around - and if you spoke to Lenny at Hotrod I'd say they could do a custom job easy enough. It's just a longer neck - isn't it?

Cone Head · #3 10-20-2014, 12:47 PM

Baritone tuning requires big strings, and that is likely lead to intonation issues (something import resonator instruments often suffer from even with regular strings).

celticelk · #4 10-20-2014, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdq

There are also baritone resonators around - and if you spoke to Lenny at Hotrod I'd say they could do a custom job easy enough. It's just a longer neck - isn't it?

It appears that most people who want a baritone resonator either order one from National or have one custom-built by a small shop. In either case, they're scarce and tend to hold a lot of their value in the rare instances when they show up on the retail market. There's no baritone offering from Republic or Hot Rod or any of the other import brands. This is an experiment for me, and I'm not ready to shell out a couple grand (assuming I had it to spend!) on an experiment. I contacted Lenny earlier this year, and while his quote was cheaper than an equivalent instrument from National, $2k is still more than I want to pay to try it out, and frankly I'd be more inclined to stay (relatively) local and contact Mule if I was having something built to spec.

celticelk · #5 10-20-2014, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cone Head

Baritone tuning requires big strings, and that is likely lead to intonation issues (something import resonator instruments often suffer from even with regular strings).

Worse than electric guitars? I regularly play Gibson-scale 7-strings tuned BEADF#BE with 11-62s, and have yet to notice significant intonation problems on a properly set-up instrument. Maybe my ear just isn't very good?

Cone Head · #6 10-21-2014, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celticelk

Worse than electric guitars? I regularly play Gibson-scale 7-strings tuned BEADF#BE with 11-62s, and have yet to notice significant intonation problems on a properly set-up instrument. Maybe my ear just isn't very good?

11 would be VERY light for standard tuning on a National, many people use a 15 or 16 for a high string when only tuning down to D, I imagine you'd want something even bigger for B.

As for electric guitars, most have individually adjustable bridge saddles, a resonator guitar does not. Hence the intonation problems with strings it wasn't designed for.

celticelk · #7 10-21-2014, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cone Head

11 would be VERY light for standard tuning on a National, many people use a 15 or 16 for a high string when only tuning down to D, I imagine you'd want something even bigger for B.

As for electric guitars, most have individually adjustable bridge saddles, a resonator guitar does not. Hence the intonation problems with strings it wasn't designed for.

Point taken. I mentioned the string gauge because it's reasonably heavy for electrics, as an indicator that I'm not averse to heavy strings on short scales. (That 11 is a high E on my 7-string, BTW.)

blue · #8 10-21-2014, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celticelk

It appears that most people who want a baritone resonator either order one from National or have one custom-built by a small shop.

National charges about $800 to replace the neck on a guitar. Sooooooo... Find a National with a jacked up neck on the cheap, and

Now that figure is for a standard neck, so it may be a little higher for a baritone. I know of a dude on Youtube called Snakehips who did this with a vintage triolian.

Teleplucker · #9 10-22-2014, 10:09 PM

I just had national do a neck swap out on a tricone to convert it to a baritone. The cost is $850 plus shipping both ways. You can not beat the customer service provided by those folks.
You will need a new case as well, national did an even trade for a NOS case they had.

44Runner · #10 10-22-2014, 10:57 PM

I just bought my first resonator and am having a blast with it. They are tons of fun and I find myself wondering how it took me so long to get one. I got a Gretsch Honey Dipper Special which is a brass body 12 fret with a 25" scale. I can't help with your basic question because I simply haven't tried it. I Imagine with a string change for tension it wouldn't be much different than doing on any other guitar.

What I did want to say is that I have been impressed with the quality of the Gretsch resonator that I purchased and if you are considering an import it might be worth taking a look at.

Best of luck and have fun.

blue · #11 10-23-2014, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teleplucker

I just had national do a neck swap out on a tricone to convert it to a baritone. The cost is $850 plus shipping both ways. You can not beat the customer service provided by those folks.
You will need a new case as well, national did an even trade for a NOS case they had.

The customer service is outstanding. I needed a case for a '32 squareneck. They said "Yeah... We'll have to cut down a standard case... It may take a couple weeks..."

Then they charged no extra over the normal case price! And when it arrived it looked custom made inside. National cases are some of the best "standard" cases out there, and this one looked like it was made from the ground up for my guitar.

Earl49 · #12 10-23-2014, 04:22 PM

FWIW, I currently have heavy gauge (59-14, D'Adario EJ-18's) on both a baritone Taylor and a standard scale jumbo Martin at the moment. I tune standard down to C-C, and really like the "light" gauge. I have trouble playing with the "standard" baritone strings for the Taylor (70-16) even at B-B tuning, and also have some trouble with the 27" scale. That 70 string is a bridge cable!

The biggest issue is that any intonation issues present are greatly magnified with the shorter scale length. But you can experiment for the cost of a set of EJ-18's.