Wood archtop tail piece question

[Feste]

I am looking to tweak my Ibanez Art Core 55 with a wood tail piece.

I have two questions:

1)I have looked at the Bendetto style and I am not sure I want to go that route. Seems like it would cause extra vibration by sitting on top of the sound board. Has anyone ahd experience with the Bendetto tailpieces?

2)Does anyone know of a luthier or distributor that makes and sells tail pieces for arch tops. I like the Buscarino but can't justify spending that much for a tailpiece.

All thoughts/ideas/suggestions appreciated!

[bohemian]

Benedetto tailpieces do not sit on the sound board they are suspended with a Sacconi(sp) tailpiece loop.

Eastman are (caricature) copies of Benedetto.

I do not care for most wood tailpieces... just my take.

May I suggest you make your own.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,...Tailpiece.html

[charles Tauber]

I've made my own wood tailpieces for arch top guitars I've made.

Stewmac sells ready-made ones and wood blanks from which you can make your own: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,...Tailpiece.html

[Feste]

Originally Posted by bohemian

Benedetto tailpieces do not sit on the sound board they are suspended with a Sacconi(sp) tailpiece loop.

My badwhat I meant was the fulcrum rests on the end of the lower bout...


I have seen several non-wood tailpieces that do not have a fulcrum on the sound board. I am new to arch-tops so please educate me if I am missing something here.. Do all wood tail pieces ave a fulcrum?

[Archtop Guy]

I don't have any guitars with Benedetto tailpieces but I can tell you that 30's through 60's L-5's with a metal tailpiece still had a device to apply pressure at that same point. On L-5's it was pitched as a "Vari-Tone", it was adjustable to apply varying pressure, and supposedly alter the tone. Most people couldn't hear the difference and Gibson took it off in the late 60's I think. Makes sense: most of the sound is coming from the middle of the plate, not the edges.

I will say that a tailpiece with a rigid mount allows easy adjustment of the string break angle over the bridge, and that is something that almost everyone can hear and feel. On the Benedetto style I'm not sure how to do that, unless you change the size of the fulcrum.

[D Stewart]

Unless a guitar has been built to handle a tailpiece with a Benedetto type mounting (ie sacconi loop), you don't want to go this route. String tension will cause the loop to bite right into the edge of the guitar, unless a "saddle" of hard ebony or bone has been inlet into the edge for this purpose.
Also, while the fulcrum in the sketch sits above the tailblock and therefore doesn't affect the vibration of the top, it does make a dent. The other way to build is to have a taller saddle (like a violin) which provides the clearance while eliminating need for a fulcrum.

[bohemian]

The "sacconi loop" was a design that took the original gut loop and made it of a synthetic material and added threaded barrels. The patent/production rights were purchased by Frank Passa (violins) of San Francisco. He continued manufacturing until his demise. I do not know who owns the "sacconi" rights at this point.

[Livingston]

Originally Posted by Feste

I am looking to tweak my Ibanez Art Core 55 with a wood tail piece.

I once replaced a metal tailpiece on an Epiphone Zephyr Regent, with a Benedetto tailpiece. There are some significant mods that should be made for a proper installation. You may need to use a larger diameter strap end pin to anchor the "Sacconi" cable. The output jack/strap pin that is used on many acoustic guitars works great.

You also have to remove about an inch of binding material and replace it with a harder material (modified nut works fine) where the cable transitions from the strap pin to the guitar's top. Wrapping the cable around a non-reinforced binding may result in a crushed binding...the "Sacconi" cable is under a fair amount of tension.

Originally Posted by Feste

I have looked at the Bendetto style and I am not sure I want to go that route. Seems like it would cause extra vibration by sitting on top of the sound board. Has anyone ahd experience with the Bendetto tailpieces?

All thoughts/ideas/suggestions appreciated!

From what I have read, the traditional heavy brass hinged tailpiece increases sustain and volume. The lightweight ebony tailpiece with cello gut or Sacconi cable attachment creates a more acoustic quality - a more rapid decay and warmer tone.

Honestly, I could not tell a sonic/tonal difference when I installed the Benedetto on my Ephiphone. Keep in mind that while the Zephyr Regent is relatively loud for a laminated arch top, it is still a laminated archtop and may not have the best acoustic quality to then be translated into a better acoustic quality by wooden tailpiece.

It was indeed a fun project but since that time, I have stuck with metal tailpieces, most of which have a wood covering to look a little more....well, woody, I guess.

If you pursue this mod, be sure to post your results. If nothing else, it sounds like a fun science project.

[Livingston]

Originally Posted by Livingston

Honestly, I could not tell a sonic/tonal difference when I installed the Benedetto on my Ephiphone. Keep in mind that while the Zephyr Regent is relatively loud for a laminated arch top, it is still a laminated archtop and may not have the best acoustic quality to then be translated into a better acoustic quality by wooden tailpiece.

CORRECTION.

I happened to stumble across some notes that I made after installing that tailpiece on my Epiphone Zephyr Regent (about 10 years ago). I don't remember writing the notes, and obviously don't remember how the tailpiece affected the tone of the guitar...I know this is a sign of my advanced years.

Here are my notes/comments on the mod:

There was a noticeable difference between the original metal tailpiece and the Benedetto ebony tailpiece. There is less sustain and notes decay (drop off) more quickly with the ebony tailpiece. Also the notes seemed a little darker.

The cable stretches and requires more frequent tuning. It eventually settles in and stops stretching but it still seems a lot more finicky than a metal tailpiece.

This mod was made on a very inexpensive, laminate guitar (Epiphone Zephyr Regent) and produced a noticeable difference. I suspect on a higher quality, solid wood axe, the difference would be even greater.

[Livingston]

Originally Posted by Feste

Does anyone know of a luthier or distributor that makes and sells tail pieces for arch tops. I like the Buscarino but can't justify spending that much for a tailpiece.

Sorry for the multiple posts.

Steve Holst makes custom tailpieces for guitars. He uses a metal bracket with a wooden cover or facade. Here is a link to his webpage that contains information on how to order a tailpiece from him: http://www.pacinfo.com/~sholst/accessories.htm

By the way, that is my Ibanez AM 70 photographed with his tailpiece.

I have found Ibanez tailpieces on e-Bay...basically the same tailpieces that come on the AF105 or the AF125. I don't see any complete Ibanez tailpieces on e-Bay at the moment but there is a seller in Hong Kong who offers complete tailpieces from time to time.

I believe Stew-Mac still sells the Benedetto ebony tailpiece and the necessary Sacconi cable.

I'm sure there are many/several other sources as well.

Good luck and let us know what you decide on!

[louparte]

Originally Posted by Livingston

Sorry for the multiple posts.

Steve Holst makes custom tailpieces for guitars. He uses a metal bracket with a wooden cover or facade. Here is a link to his webpage that contains information on how to order a tailpiece from him: http://www.pacinfo.com/~sholst/accessories.htm

By the way, that is my Ibanez AM 70 photographed with his tailpiece.

I have found Ibanez tailpieces on e-Bay...basically the same tailpieces that come on the AF105 or the AF125. I don't see any complete Ibanez tailpieces on e-Bay at the moment but there is a seller in Hong Kong who offers complete tailpieces from time to time.

I believe Stew-Mac still sells the Benedetto ebony tailpiece and the necessary Sacconi cable.

I'm sure there are many/several other sources as well.

Good luck and let us know what you decide on!

http://www.stewmac.com/Shopping?actn...lpiece+archtop

[Feste]

Originally Posted by Livingston

Sorry for the multiple posts.

Steve Holst makes custom tailpieces for guitars. He uses a metal bracket with a wooden cover or facade. Here is a link to his webpage that contains information on how to order a tailpiece from him: http://www.pacinfo.com/~sholst/accessories.htm

By the way, that is my Ibanez AM 70 photographed with his tailpiece.

Thanks for the information. I will contact Steve and see if we can work out a design!
That tail piece of your Ibanez is very distinctive! What did you think of the sonic quality after you installed it?

[Livingston]

Originally Posted by Feste

That tail piece of your Ibanez is very distinctive! What did you think of the sonic quality after you installed it?

No noticeable difference, really. I choose a trapeze tailpiece based on aesthetics...to be perfectly honest.

[kayakman]

Mark Campellone builds a wonderful tail piece one of the most elegant.....

[AmericanPicker]

Originally Posted by D Stewart

Unless a guitar has been built to handle a tailpiece with a Benedetto type mounting (ie sacconi loop), you don't want to go this route. String tension will cause the loop to bite right into the edge of the guitar, unless a "saddle" of hard ebony or bone has been inlet into the edge for this purpose.
Also, while the fulcrum in the sketch sits above the tailblock and therefore doesn't affect the vibration of the top, it does make a dent. The other way to build is to have a taller saddle (like a violin) which provides the clearance while eliminating need for a fulcrum.

I agree! I inlaid a small rectangle of ebony at the edge of the Archtop to accommodate the ebony fulcrum!