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  #16  
Old 02-22-2018, 09:39 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
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Originally Posted by BobbyMocha View Post
So something that’s been said a couple times ... this idea of stacked notes, is that how the chord will be represented in notation?
Maybe, but probably not

Most "contemporary" music (that is non-classical) and even jazz will be written as a Lead Sheet. These typically have notation for the melody (w/ lyrics when applicable) and chord symbols written above (e.g. G7, Am7, etc.).

Now there are times you'll see chords written out as a stack of notes, but that's most common in the classical repertoire.

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  #17  
Old 02-23-2018, 05:31 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by BobbyMocha View Post
So something that’s been said a couple times ... this idea of stacked notes, is that how the chord will be represented in notation?
Just to qualify my earlier reply. IF a chord is to be represented in notation, then it will shown as stacked notes as I showed. This would be in the context of some kind of theory lesson or demo - maybe not in a practical performance context.

But if you mean in a lead sheet for a song (i.e., with a notated vocal melody), then no. Chord symbols would be used, and you need to understand that shorthand language.

If the notation includes piano accompaniment (which it often does in traditional songbooks), the piano staves will include bass lines and some kind of arrangement of the chords - perhaps partial, arpeggiated, with a specific rhythm - designed to be played (pretty much) as written. This is known as a "piano reduction", and would have been transcribed from a recording, so the piano is attempting to emulate all the instruments on that recording to provide a suitable accompaniment for the singer.
IOW, if you did see a C chord notated as I showed, then it would be played in full on beat 1 and held for 4 beats. That's obviously quite unusual in practice!

The sheet will usually also contain chord symbols, representing the chords implied by the piano part. As a guitarist, you would just strum or pick those chords as you liked - although you could (given enough technique and reading skills!) attempt to play the written piano part.
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  #18  
Old 02-23-2018, 12:43 PM
harpspitfire harpspitfire is offline
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i tried this a little bit today for the heck of it- playing the melodies of a few simple Xmas songs from piano music, i think the real issue is knowing and memory of the notes on the fretboard, reading the notes is only second nature, once you know that, its like riding a bicycle, you never forget, at the starting stage, i wouldnt worry about harmonic melodies, triads, whatever you want to call it at 1st- that would be advanced playing IMHO
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  #19  
Old 02-24-2018, 02:05 PM
FwL FwL is offline
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Originally Posted by BobbyMocha View Post
So something that’s been said a couple times ... this idea of stacked notes, is that how the chord will be represented in notation?

Well, yes... chords are always stacked notes. That's pretty much the definition of a chord.

Which notes are being stacked is where it can get tricky.


For most guitar chords, you'll need to learn to recognize the intervals of 3rd, 4th and 5th.


Take a look at the second chord in this image:



That's what the typical C major barre chord at the 8th fret looks like in standard notation. It contains all three intervals I mentioned.

From the bottom up, you have 5th, 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th.

As people have posted earlier, thirds are notes written from one line to the next or one space to the next.

4ths are one line or space larger... so from line, past the next line and in the next space... or space, past the next space and on the next line.

5ths are one line or space larger than 4ths... so from line to two lines over... or from space to two spaces over.


Knowing that, you can look at the first chord in the image and without even stopping to figure out what notes to play, you can see it has the same interval pattern as the second chord.

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Last edited by FwL; 02-24-2018 at 02:08 PM. Reason: srewed up post
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  #20  
Old 02-24-2018, 07:02 PM
BobbyMocha BobbyMocha is offline
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Originally Posted by FwL View Post
Well, yes... chords are always stacked notes. That's pretty much the definition of a chord.



Which notes are being stacked is where it can get tricky.





For most guitar chords, you'll need to learn to recognize the intervals of 3rd, 4th and 5th.





Take a look at the second chord in this image:







That's what the typical C major barre chord at the 8th fret looks like in standard notation. It contains all three intervals I mentioned.



From the bottom up, you have 5th, 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th.



As people have posted earlier, thirds are notes written from one line to the next or one space to the next.



4ths are one line or space larger... so from line, past the next line and in the next space... or space, past the next space and on the next line.



5ths are one line or space larger than 4ths... so from line to two lines over... or from space to two spaces over.





Knowing that, you can look at the first chord in the image and without even stopping to figure out what notes to play, you can see it has the same interval pattern as the second chord.



.


Thanks FwL. It's clear me now that what I'm hoping to understand is a bit down the road aways...that before I can understand 10, I need to learn and full understand 1 thru 9. I see I need to be diligent about studying this stuff.
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  #21  
Old 02-25-2018, 11:07 AM
harpspitfire harpspitfire is offline
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well, no one told me to shut up yet or made replies, so ill post my latest thoughts on this, after a 3-4 days of doing this, it breaks down into 2 parts-reading music and knowing the fretboard- 1st part, reading music is easy enough, id still forget adding duo and triads and this points, thing is, i still suggest learning the notes and scales (in different keys) on the keyboard, simply because you just learning to read music, you know only to know 12 notes- thats it, fairly simple actually-going beyond this will tell you which octave the notes are played on- you know what notes make a whatever chord- and the notes in every scale from major to minor etc etc- 2nd part is playing this on a guitar which is easier said then done, im afraid i see (just up to the 12th fret) no less then memorizing 72 notes(6 for each fret) this is going to be a daily practice routine, which i believe will drag into months and years, i seriously think that is the reason tabs are so popular, if you think about it, you dont even have to read music, its more like follow the numbers, regardless, even you dont reach this stage, knowing the notation music will help on guitar fretboard in the long run
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  #22  
Old 02-25-2018, 06:41 PM
BobbyMocha BobbyMocha is offline
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Originally Posted by harpspitfire View Post
well, no one told me to shut up yet or made replies, so ill post my latest thoughts on this, after a 3-4 days of doing this, it breaks down into 2 parts-reading music and knowing the fretboard- 1st part, reading music is easy enough, id still forget adding duo and triads and this points, thing is, i still suggest learning the notes and scales (in different keys) on the keyboard, simply because you just learning to read music, you know only to know 12 notes- thats it, fairly simple actually-going beyond this will tell you which octave the notes are played on- you know what notes make a whatever chord- and the notes in every scale from major to minor etc etc- 2nd part is playing this on a guitar which is easier said then done, im afraid i see (just up to the 12th fret) no less then memorizing 72 notes(6 for each fret) this is going to be a daily practice routine, which i believe will drag into months and years, i seriously think that is the reason tabs are so popular, if you think about it, you dont even have to read music, its more like follow the numbers, regardless, even you dont reach this stage, knowing the notation music will help on guitar fretboard in the long run


Thanks, I agree that knowing this is very important. I can do the how but I need to know the why. If it takes years to do it. So be it.
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  #23  
Old 02-25-2018, 07:52 PM
harpspitfire harpspitfire is offline
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the why will explain itself after you can read music without hesitation- if you look at the chords in post 20- youll recognize the Bflat major and c major in a split second- also knowing what the notes are, actually, i wish you the best of luck here, this would be a really great accomplishment on guitar
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  #24  
Old 02-26-2018, 08:47 AM
FwL FwL is offline
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Originally Posted by BobbyMocha View Post
Thanks, I agree that knowing this is very important. I can do the how but I need to know the why. If it takes years to do it. So be it.

Can I ask for an example of music you're looking at currently and what you'd like to be able to read in the future?


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  #25  
Old 02-26-2018, 09:49 AM
BobbyMocha BobbyMocha is offline
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Can I ask for an example of music you're looking at currently and what you'd like to be able to read in the future?





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Sure,

I was taking an online class. I bought a couple of books. One was the textbook for it - Berklee school of Music: A Modern Method for Guitar (https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Method...cLAbGJACKN6_im ), and the other was just a Song Book of some David Gilmore acoustic pieces. While going through these as I’m attempting to learn to read music, this idea of trying to understand how chords are written are came up. And maybe I’m not far along in my learning yet to put the pieces together but this is where the question originated. My goal is to be able to open a page and read the notation and understand it without having the note/ chord written above it or the chord chart there for finger placement
I’ll included a screen capture of one of the pages I was looking at shortly.
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