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Old 05-26-2017, 03:26 AM
Authentic Authentic is offline
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Default Any revoluntionary pickups these days?

I remember when the Fishman F1 Aura came out or the LR Baggs Lyric those were significant developments in terms of pickups and created quite a buzz.

It seems over the past few years there hasn't been any "news". Have I missed anything big lately or have pickups largely remained stagnant?
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Old 05-26-2017, 06:30 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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I remember when the Fishman F1 Aura came out or the LR Baggs Lyric those were significant developments in terms of pickups and created quite a buzz.

It seems over the past few years there hasn't been any "news". Have I missed anything big lately or have pickups largely remained stagnant?
The Trance Audio systems, the Taylor ES2 system and the Barbera Soloist have received much praise on this forum in the past few years, and now we have the extra added attraction of observing which system(s) will work best with the ToneDexter digital box.

For a pickup which doesn't screw up the guitar's acoustic tone, the Soloist is getting high marks because its a passive in-saddle pickup where the saddle is made of a superior saddle material, and the "electronics" is minimal (a lead and a strap-jack). It also has good string separation and string volume balance (qualities which especially appeal to fingerstylists) and an extremely high immunity to feedback because of its design. (Its a very string-oriented pickup with the six individual piezo crystals wired out-of-phase with adjacent crystals for the greatest possible feedback rejection.)

The early anecdotal evidence is that the Soloist can work well with ToneDexter provided one uses a special training method to create the ToneDexter WaveMap. (This is necessary because of the crystals being wired out of phase.)


The new Taylor ES2 is getting high marks from users, and the recorded samples do indeed sound very good. The new system is a purely piezo system (no mags involved), so its an amusing irony to some of us that the Taylor folks spent years trashing piezo pickup systems ("the duck is dead" and so forth).

The early anecdotal evidence on the ES2/ToneDexter combo is that its working well in at least one case.


As for the Trance Audio pickup systems, the current conventional wisdom seems to be that they are the best sounding stand-alone systems out there. The recorded samples have indeed been impressive.

The early anecdotal evidence on the Trance Audio/ToneDexter combo is that its working well in at least one case.
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Old 05-26-2017, 06:43 AM
MaurysMusic MaurysMusic is offline
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Trance Audio came out with the dual-mono Amulet M a few years ago - a less expensive, easier-to-install version of their legendary stereo Amulet. Late last year they introduced a Phantom-Powered version. I was a part of the beta test for the Amulet M Phantom, and it's still in my guitar today. Doug Young just did a video for AG:

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Old 05-26-2017, 09:01 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Trance Audio came out with the dual-mono Amulet M a few years ago - a less expensive, easier-to-install version of their legendary stereo Amulet. Late last year they introduced a Phantom-Powered version. I was a part of the beta test for the Amulet M Phantom, and it's still in my guitar today. Doug Young just did a video for AG:
Maury, I received my new Trance system from Gary and Lauren on Tuesday. I've installed the lenses over the past two nights and I'm eager to finish up this install tonight. They were gracious enough to send the "plus" system with the gain and phase adjustment. How are you running the new phantom system? Straight into the Bose T1? Are you using any kind of direct box? I love the idea of eschewing my 9V battery, but I'm concerned about the availability of 48V phantom everywhere.

Also, Gitaniac's post above is an excellent synopsis of the latest and greatest. I don't own the Barbera pickup, or the Tonedexter (yet), but I can attest to the Trance and ES2. In fact, I would go as far as to say that the only factory system I would currently buy is the Taylor ES2. I bought a lower model Taylor for gigs, in part, because I like the simplicity of the system. Otherwise, for any other guitar that needed a pickup, I'd be installing a Trance system.

The Aura F1 Plus sounds excellent, but I'm not a fan of USTs in guitars.

The only other option that I'd be interested in trying is the PUTW #54 with MiSi battery free preamp. I like the sound of the pickup, and I love the idea of a battery free preamp. That might also be a good combination with the Tonedexter.
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Old 05-26-2017, 09:05 AM
MaurysMusic MaurysMusic is offline
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Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
Maury, I received my new Trance system from Gary and Lauren on Tuesday. I've installed the lenses over the past two nights and I'm eager to finish up this install tonight. They were gracious enough to send the "plus" system with the gain and phase adjustment. How are you running the new phantom system? Straight into the Bose T1? Are you using any kind of direct box? I love the idea of eschewing my 9V battery, but I'm concerned about the availability of 48V phantom everywhere.

Also, Gitaniac's post above is an excellent synopsis of the latest and greatest. I don't own the Barbera pickup, or the Tonedexter (yet), but I can attest to the Trance and ES2. In fact, I would go as far as to say that the only factory system I would currently buy is the Taylor ES2. I bought a lower model Taylor for gigs, in part, because I like the simplicity of the system. Otherwise, for any other guitar that needed a pickup, I'd be installing a Trance system.

The Aura F1 Plus sounds excellent, but I'm not a fan of USTs in guitars.

The only other option that I'd be interested in trying is the PUTW #54 with MiSi battery free preamp. I like the sound of the pickup, and I love the idea of a battery free preamp. That might also be a good combination with the Tonedexter.
Can't wait to hear your review! I usually run my Amulet M Phantom into an Ohuhu Phantom Power supply, out to a Radial PZ Deluxe, and into my Bose... but I really only use the Radial for it's boost switch & so I can have the ability to reverse phase (not always necessary). I've been bumping the bass to 2:00ish sometimes.

At other venues, I've also run direct into the Bose T1 tonematch with equally great results & at a few big gigs, I fed my guitar's XLR TRS cable to the FOH snake. Same great sound. It really is handy.
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Old 05-26-2017, 09:23 AM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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I don't think we'll see too many new advancements but once every ten years or so and they'll be minor. The methods for detecting acoustic resonance have remained the same (mags, piezo-based USTs & SBTs, microphones) and we're past the point of anything major developing. As is the case with most technology, the "breakthroughs" will be minor advances to existing ideas that will make a big difference to players.

The Trance is just the FRAP, updated & improved. The Barbera Soloist is the LB6, again, updated. K&K Mini is the Barcus Berry Hot Spot. The Anthem is an advancement of a common UST/condensor mic dual source system and the Lyric is just the logical extension of internal mic technology. Heck, the ES2 is probably paying royalties to the Takamine palathetic pickup. The best advancements are improvements to the same ol' same ol'. I'm sure we'll see something new in a few years, but it'll be familiar as well.
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Old 05-26-2017, 09:30 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Originally Posted by MrErikJ View Post
I don't think we'll see too many new advancements but once every ten years or so and they'll be minor. The methods for detecting acoustic resonance have remained the same (mags, piezo-based USTs & SBTs, microphones) and we're past the point of anything major developing. As is the case with most technology, the "breakthroughs" will be minor advances to existing ideas that will make a big difference to players.



The Trance is just the FRAP, updated & improved. The Barbera Soloist is the LB6, again, updated. K&K Mini is the Barcus Berry Hot Spot. The Anthem is an advancement of a common UST/condensor mic dual source system and the Lyric is just the logical extension of internal mic technology. Heck, the ES2 is probably paying royalties to the Takamine palathetic pickup. The best advancements are improvements to the same ol' same ol'. I'm sure we'll see something new in a few years, but it'll be familiar as well.

Yup! Great post! There's nothing new under the sun. But, all of these subsequent improvements can't be discounted.

I was just going to post in Tak thread that the ES2 was a stripped down version of their Palenthetic pickup. Just less mass.


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Old 05-26-2017, 09:35 AM
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Lot's of great choices in pickups these days. After playing the same old stuff for decades I've been trying some of the new acoustic guitar PU systems and I'm impressed with the currently available stuff.

FWIW I settled on an Anthem SL system in my new Waterloo guitar and a DiMarzio Black Angel sound hole PU for my ancient J45 that doesn't have an end pin jack. Both pickups are quite nice compared to older PU systems I have used.

Interesting recent developments include foot pedal DI boxes with analogue or digital processing designed to tame the quack and honk of piezo pickups. I have only used the Session DI because it's the first one I auditioned and it hit a home run when used with the Anthem SL.
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Old 05-26-2017, 09:44 AM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
Yup! Great post! There's nothing new under the sun. But, all of these subsequent improvements can't be discounted.

I was just going to post in Tak thread that the ES2 was a stripped down version of their Palenthetic pickup. Just less mass.


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Those small advances can make big differences. The fact that Dieter took Barcus Berry's idea and made it much more usable was huge for guitarists. The FRAP was a pickup with amazing potential and Trance mostly perfected it. Heck, the LB6 is my favorite pickup and I don't doubt that the Soloist is probably an improvement. Look how much people love the Anthem and it's just a clever variation of their own Duet & Dual Source systems. The Anthem was probably the result of an engineer saying "instead of the mic supplementing the piezo...what if the piezo supplemented the mic?" Bam. Innovation.

Always start with what currently works and how to improve it. That's how you innovate.
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Old 05-26-2017, 09:55 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Here's my first attempt with mic'ing and using the ToneDexter with my Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono-equipped Martin HD-28. The ToneDexter WaveMap and recording isn't as good as I know I can get BUT it represents one of the few demos, anywhere, of an acoustic guitar pickup system being subjected to moderately aggressive play using a flatpick, which is to me the test of a good pickup system's headroom and tone. More and better demos to come ...

2014 Martin HD-28 with Trance Audio Amulet M-VT and Shure SM81 into ToneDexter. Particulars: Strings are recommended Martin LifeSpan SP Medium Gage Phosphor Bronze; Pick is Charmed Life Brown (Vespel) .75 mm; Audio interface PreSonus Studio 192 recording at 48/24, try the SoundCloud Download button on the upper-right of soundfile panel for better recording:
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Old 05-26-2017, 10:23 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Here's my first attempt with mic'ing and using the ToneDexter with my Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono-equipped Martin HD-28. The ToneDexter WaveMap and recording isn't as good as I know I can get BUT it represents one of the few demos, anywhere, of an acoustic guitar pickup system being subjected to moderately aggressive play using a flatpick, which is to me the test of a good pickup system's headroom and tone. More and better demos to come ...

2014 Martin HD-28 with Trance Audio Amulet M-VT into ToneDexter. Particulars: Strings are recommended Martin LifeSpan SP Medium Gage Phosphor Bronze; Pick is Charmed Life Brown (Vespel) .75 mm; Audio interface PreSonus Studio 192 recording at 48/24, try the SoundCloud Download button on the upper-left of soundfile panel for better recording:
That sounds amazing! It does not sound like any pickup I've ever heard. Dang! Just when I think I've got things figured out, now I need a Tonedexter! :-)
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Old 05-26-2017, 10:52 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by MrErikJ View Post
I don't think we'll see too many new advancements but once every ten years or so and they'll be minor. The methods for detecting acoustic resonance have remained the same (mags, piezo-based USTs & SBTs, microphones) and we're past the point of anything major developing. As is the case with most technology, the "breakthroughs" will be minor advances to existing ideas that will make a big difference to players.

The Trance is just the FRAP, updated & improved. The Barbera Soloist is the LB6, again, updated. K&K Mini is the Barcus Berry Hot Spot. The Anthem is an advancement of a common UST/condensor mic dual source system and the Lyric is just the logical extension of internal mic technology. Heck, the ES2 is probably paying royalties to the Takamine palathetic pickup. The best advancements are improvements to the same ol' same ol'. I'm sure we'll see something new in a few years, but it'll be familiar as well.
I wouldn't call some of these advancements "minor". It's easy now to look at something like the Aura and not get excited but when it first came out, it was a pretty revolutionary product. IMO, it still is a pretty remarkable system. The tonedexter is taking that a bit further as well.

The Anthem/Lyric is not really just a small advancement in the UST/mic combination. Although it's not perfect, the tru-mic is also pretty remarkable. Who thought we could use an internal mic at high volumes without feedback?

Lastly, the ES2 is completely different than the Takamine system. It's not 100% new since a lot of manufacturers have been making after market systems for mandolins that use the same set up (piezo on the back of the saddle). However, it's still pretty cool.

Sorry, don't mean to sound angry, I just like giving credit to these manufacturers who continually improve older technology.
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:23 PM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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I wouldn't call some of these advancements "minor". It's easy now to look at something like the Aura and not get excited but when it first came out, it was a pretty revolutionary product. IMO, it still is a pretty remarkable system. The tonedexter is taking that a bit further as well.

The Anthem/Lyric is not really just a small advancement in the UST/mic combination. Although it's not perfect, the tru-mic is also pretty remarkable. Who thought we could use an internal mic at high volumes without feedback?

Lastly, the ES2 is completely different than the Takamine system. It's not 100% new since a lot of manufacturers have been making after market systems for mandolins that use the same set up (piezo on the back of the saddle). However, it's still pretty cool.

Sorry, don't mean to sound angry, I just like giving credit to these manufacturers who continually improve older technology.
And my intention isn't to make light of their advancements, I'm trying to give credit. My point is that we probably won't see something like "laser-based" transducers or anything, but some variation of existing tech. The Anthem, ES2, and Aura/Tonedexter are all great advancements, but my point is that they are based on existing tech. Even the IR technology of the Aura had existed in different forms before (the Mama Bear and some amps had similar features) but the Aura took it to a new level and the Tonedexter even more so.

I was not saying that these aren't great products or achievements, but that they're rooted in existing & proven concepts instead of something completely new, like a 1.21 Gigawatt preamp or a UST made of moon rock.
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Old 05-26-2017, 04:26 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I wouldn't call some of these advancements "minor". It's easy now to look at something like the Aura and not get excited but when it first came out, it was a pretty revolutionary product. IMO, it still is a pretty remarkable system. The tonedexter is taking that a bit further as well.

The Anthem/Lyric is not really just a small advancement in the UST/mic combination. Although it's not perfect, the tru-mic is also pretty remarkable. Who thought we could use an internal mic at high volumes without feedback?

Lastly, the ES2 is completely different than the Takamine system. It's not 100% new since a lot of manufacturers have been making after market systems for mandolins that use the same set up (piezo on the back of the saddle). However, it's still pretty cool.

Sorry, don't mean to sound angry, I just like giving credit to these manufacturers who continually improve older technology.
I've thought that the ES2 might have been inspired by the Soloist, the idea being to get the piezo crystals very close to the strings while minimizing the direct pressure on the crystals.
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Old 05-26-2017, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
Here's my first attempt with mic'ing and using the ToneDexter with my Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono-equipped Martin HD-28. The ToneDexter WaveMap and recording isn't as good as I know I can get BUT it represents one of the few demos, anywhere, of an acoustic guitar pickup system being subjected to moderately aggressive play using a flatpick, which is to me the test of a good pickup system's headroom and tone. More and better demos to come ...

2014 Martin HD-28 with Trance Audio Amulet M-VT into ToneDexter. Particulars: Strings are recommended Martin LifeSpan SP Medium Gage Phosphor Bronze; Pick is Charmed Life Brown (Vespel) .75 mm; Audio interface PreSonus Studio 192 recording at 48/24, try the SoundCloud Download button on the upper-left of soundfile panel for better recording:
Still loving this demo. I'm looking forward to hearing the ES2/ToneDexter combo samples.
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