Playing an 8 string baritone guitar

[thestubbyone]

How hard is it to transition to the 8 string baritone guitar? I have played 6 string only and was wondering what the learning curve was like. Is it like starting all over with the chord shapes, etc?

[Bob from Brooklyn]

You play the same chords as on the guitar but it will be in a different key.

[TheGITM]

Counterpoint: It's pretty much nothing like playing a 6 string guitar, except for the 5 strings (A,D, G, B, E). The bass strings are E, A, D. And the fretboard is... bigger. Plus, there are a lot of players who use alternate tunings...

One of my brothers got heavy into the uber multi-string stuff with a lot of technique that really is nothing like playing a 6 string guitar.

If you go down that rabbit hole, I wish you all the best! It's a different world...

[Jimi2]

I think there’s some confusion over whether this is in reference to a baritone guitar (typically acoustic) that has two octave courses like a 12 string, or an extended range guitar (typically though not always electric) with just additional bass strings and no octave courses.

I have the former - a Taylor 316ce.

[TheGITM]

*raises hand*

My bad... thanks for clarifying what now appears to be kinda obvious. I was thinking the extended range guitars. I never did grasp why my brother was so infatuated with them... though he was one of those Chicago Guitar Circle guys that loved the Avant Garde stuff.

Okay then. I know nothing about 8 string baritone guitars (obviously) so I will see myself out now...

[Jimi2]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

*raises hand*

My bad... thanks for clarifying what now appears to be kinda obvious. I was thinking the extended range guitars. I never did grasp why my brother was so infatuated with them... though he was one of those Chicago Guitar Circle guys that loved the Avant Garde stuff.

Okay then. I know nothing about 8 string baritone guitars (obviously) so I will see myself out now...

Haha, no worries. I know of at least one company that makes 8 string extended range acoustics! I’m not sure how practical they are going that low on an acoustic though. I think the one I saw was like 28” scale. I have a seven string acoustic, and that’s pushing it as far as getting defined bass out of an acoustic instrument.

[L20A]

I sold an Alvarez 6 string baritone and replaced it with a Guild 8 string baritone.
Both of these guitars had 1 3/4" nuts and played like a normal 6 string guitar.
The difference is you are playing in a much lower key, when the baritone is tuned B to B.

I found this tuning and using baritone strings with the very heavy .070 bottom string to be muddy sounding.
These guitars were not much harder to play than a normal 6 string though.

My Guild 8 string baritone is tuned D to D with medium gauge strings.
I really like the sound of the guitar when it is tuned this way.
It matches my vocals very well and the guitar sounds great when using a capo all the way up to the fifth fret.

[Dan Winheld]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

*raises hand*

My bad... thanks for clarifying what now appears to be kinda obvious. I was thinking the extended range guitars. I never did grasp why my brother was so infatuated with them... though he was one of those Chicago Guitar Circle guys that loved the Avant Garde stuff.

Okay then. I know nothing about 8 string baritone guitars (obviously) so I will see myself out now...

This misunderstanding is rampant in Baritoneland. I have the extended range 8 string Baritone, plus the fanned frets/multiscale feature to help ease up the string gauge problems inherent in too much range compressed into a single string length. (Sorry I can’t do the picture thing on this forum) “Agile Renaissance” through Rondo music for the ridiculous price of $670! It sounds like about $2-3K-ish., but setup strictly cheap! I had to do a fair amount of nut work to make it playable.

I use it to play music originally for lutes and related wire string instruments of the late Renaissance period, and to my ears it rocks! With 8 strings it does push the envelope for how much useable good range, so my tuning is one tone narrower than the marketed setup; where it’s not sold as a baritone, but just a “guitar”, and the range is standard e - E, down to low B 7, then low A 8.

At 27” to 30” multiscale, this is NOT a standard guitar in any way, shape, or form- but a full size Baritone with a big, sort of jumbo shape, and deep almost 5” body. I drop it down one full tone to d - D, then low C7 then low A8.

Don’t know any other Baritone players who have this axe or play the stuff I do, but maybe Baritone land is still a bit Wild West compared to more standard guitars.

[Dan Winheld]

Originally Posted by thestubbyone

How hard is it to transition to the 8 string baritone guitar? I have played 6 string only and was wondering what the learning curve was like. Is it like starting all over with the chord shapes, etc?

Forgot to address OP’s question. The chord shapes are the same, but the names change! Also depends on what Baritone pitch you prefer, they seem to be most typically tuned down to B or C, but the old original Danelectro electrics were usually a low A. Mine can be called “Baritone lite” as I only drop down to D, bc of my extended range. Gets muddy down there in the low basement!

Once you have your pitch/tuniing decided on, then map out or find chord charts based on your pitch. String to string, fret to fret.

The stretch! Again, depends on your string length to fingers ratio. Baritones range from 27” to 30”. I got used to mine pretty quickly, medium large hands and lots of classical woodshedding. Go slow and careful, don’t hurt yourself with too much too soon.

[brad4d8]

Originally Posted by L20A

....I found this tuning and using baritone strings with the very heavy .070 bottom string to be muddy sounding....

I agree. I intend to replace it with a heavier string the next time I change them, forget offhand what I bought, probably .074 or .075. I also change out the second plain .022 with a wound .022, just feels and sounds better to my hands and ears. Tried tuning it C to C, but preferred the B to B.

[Jimi2]

I play my baritone 8 with a thumb pick, and I don’t find it muddy - though I’m not strumming full chords, just fingerpicking. I even tune the 8th (bass) string down to A pretty frequently for open tunings.

[Dan Winheld]

Originally Posted by Jimi2

I play my baritone 8 with a thumb pick, and I don’t find it muddy - though I’m not strumming full chords, just fingerpicking. I even tune the 8th (bass) string down to A pretty frequently for open tunings.

Thumb pick sounds like an excellent way to help clean up a muddy bass, something I struggle with on some songs. (No nails fingertip player). Going to pure Nickel .70” for my low A also helps a lot, PB too inherently “muddy” sounding.

[Doug Young]

I spent quite a bit of time with the Taylor Bari-8 back when they came out, and I reviewed one for Acoustic Guitar. It's been a while, but I remember it pretty well. I'm still not clear if this is what the OP is asking about, but this one was a 6 string guitar, tuned down to B, with the middle 2 string doubled with octave strings. I've also seen non-baritones configured the same way.

As far as how different it is, it depends on your playing style. For strumming, they sound sort of like a 12 string, but less jangly, since there are only 2 octave strings. Otherwise, just play it. Of course it sounds deeper and lower, you'll be in a different key. The high strings tend to balance the low end of the bari, making it less muddy than a straight 6 string baritone.

As with any baritone, you're tuned down, so you have to transpose if you want to play with others. If you play alone, it doesn't matter. Finger an "E" shape, and think of it as playing an E. It will actually be a B, but just as with using a capo, you don't have to even think about that. You're essentially capo'd down. If you play with others, you'll need to get good at transposing. Your playing partners will be thinking in one key, you'll be thinking in another, just like when you capo.

If you fingerpick, things get a little more "interesting". Basic pattern picking, like for accompaniment, will mostly just work, but with some unexpected higher notes from the octave strings. Not unlike playing a 12-string, but it's less consistent, with only 2 strings in octaves. Can be a pleasantly surprising twist.

If you're trying to play fingerstyle instrumentals, you'll find it's hit or miss - songs that you have worked out on standard 6 string may work fine, or the unexpected octave jumps may mess up the melody. I found it worked well for some tunes.

Here's an example of a tune that I thought worked fairly well:



BTW, Pat Methany uses a somewhat related approach with his 6-string baritone, where he has octave strings on strings 3-4, but they're not doubled. This has pretty much the same pros and cons as the 8 string, tho it sounds less "12-stringy". Especially for fingerstyle, it does get rid of a lot of mud, and has essentially an extended range.

[815C]

A luthier friend of mine loaned me a 7 string baritone acoustic he had built. While I tend to know my way around the fretboard more than your average guitarist, I could never get my brain around having that 7th string. Might be a different for you.

[Dan Winheld]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I spent quite a bit of time with the Taylor Bari-8 back when they came out, and I reviewed one for Acoustic Guitar. It's been a while, but I remember it pretty well. I'm still not clear if this is what the OP is asking about, but this one was a 6 string guitar, tuned down to B, with the middle 2 string doubled with octave strings. I've also seen non-baritones configured the same way.

As far as how different it is, it depends on your playing style. For strumming, they sound sort of like a 12 string, but less jangly, since there are only 2 octave strings. Otherwise, just play it. Of course it sounds deeper and lower, you'll be in a different key. The high strings tend to balance the low end of the bari, making it less muddy than a straight 6 string baritone.

As with any baritone, you're tuned down, so you have to transpose if you want to play with others. If you play alone, it doesn't matter. Finger an "E" shape, and think of it as playing an E. It will actually be a B, but just as with using a capo, you don't have to even think about that. You're essentially capo'd down. If you play with others, you'll need to get good at transposing. Your playing partners will be thinking in one key, you'll be thinking in another, just like when you capo.

If you fingerpick, things get a little more "interesting". Basic pattern picking, like for accompaniment, will mostly just work, but with some unexpected higher notes from the octave strings. Not unlike playing a 12-string, but it's less consistent, with only 2 strings in octaves. Can be a pleasantly surprising twist.

If you're trying to play fingerstyle instrumentals, you'll find it's hit or miss - songs that you have worked out on standard 6 string may work fine, or the unexpected octave jumps may mess up the melody. I found it worked well for some tunes.

Here's an example of a tune that I thought worked fairly well:



BTW, Pat Methany uses a somewhat related approach with his 6-string baritone, where he has octave strings on strings 3-4, but they're not doubled. This has pretty much the same pros and cons as the 8 string, tho it sounds less "12-stringy". Especially for fingerstyle, it does get rid of a lot of mud, and has essentially an extended range.

Bravo! Beautiful, and very beautifully played. previously I had no idea why only two strings in the middle would have octaves- why not just bulld 12 string Baritones, one can always simply remove the unwanted octave strings, no? - but in any case, I hear what you’re doing and it’s just gorgeous. Still working out what exactly I want to do with my wonderful Baritone monster.