Being A Big Boy F-chord - Page 2

WonderMonkey · #16 09-25-2016, 02:06 PM

One thing I figured out to do is practice a different fingering for my normal E major. Instead of using my first finger on the G string on the first fret I am practicing my one minute changes (JustinGuitar.com) and using my second finger on the G string and first fret. That mimicks the shape for the barre F and of course the rest of that shape's barre everywhere else.

I figure that like has been suggested for this F if I just use both of those fingerings back and forth it will help not be a "foreign" shape and in time my left hand will decide how to make the shape without thinking about it depending what chord I'm coming from and where I'm going next.

Standard fingering.

#17 09-25-2016, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WonderMonkey

Or maybe if I practice both my hand will just do what it needs to do.

Yes, exactly.

WonderMonkey · #18 09-25-2016, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A-Mac

Yes, exactly.

I..... I.. got something right?

* hires manager and goes on tour *

jseth · #19 09-26-2016, 08:13 PM

It is EXTREMELY useful to know and be familiar with barre chords of all types... that said, how much you'll use them will depend upon the type of music you play (or want to play).

If, like Rick-Slo, you play fingerstyle, then playing the barre in the proscribed manner is paramount... however, if you play blues and rock and roll, getting used to "catching that E string with your thumb" is absolutely necessary to replicate the sounds of the originators of the genres...

Yes, having your palm against the neck does pull your fingers out of position... but there is a lot of music where a full barre just doesn't sound right...

You have to remember, those old-time cats didn't KNOW that it was the wrong way; they just played however they could get the sound they wanted, or they played like someone else showed them.

For a funky, "loose" feel, wrapping your thumb is frequently the only way to go...

I don't have large hands or long fingers, not at all... but, after working it for quite a while, I can get that low E string with my thumb most times...

Check out playing that F chord in the first manner, but substitute your pinky for the #3 finger in your diagram, then use your 3rd finger to catch the C note on the A string, 3rd fret... then wrap your thumb over to catch that low F note on the E string. That's a VERY useful shape that can be moved all over the fret board...

An important thing to remember: Although you will strive to have each note ring clearly, there is rarely a time when you will actually WANT to play every string in the chord...

stanron · #20 09-27-2016, 12:07 AM

I suppose it's worth mentioning, for those who are new to 'thumb over', that you don't hold strings down with the thumb in the same way as you do with your fingers. It's obviously impossible to use the tip of the thumb. It's the skin on the side of my thumb that pulls the string down. If the neck is too large to allow the thumb to bend at the nail knuckle there is still enough skin on the side to hold the string down.

Jonathan_Reaux · #21 10-06-2016, 08:30 AM

Everybody has given some great advice.
There is an incredibly easy way to play the F. It is a variation within the C chord family. This would be useful for you if your playing in that key. If your goal is simplicity and not so much being exactly accurate to whatever song your covering, then these chords in this tutorial are extremely useful.

http://youtu.be/fE0jtjXPwdM

Mr. Jelly · #22 10-06-2016, 02:42 PM

I don't like the F chord. I've tried it every way I've ever heard of and I haven't yet found an F that I like to use. The experts can save their breath. I didn't say I don't use them I said I don't like it.

Charmed Life Picks · #23 10-22-2016, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Save yourself a whole lotta pain and simply play the 6th string on the 1st fret with your thumb.

Correcto. Exactly. Plus, it makes it much simpler and less awkward to go from F to other chords in the same key: G, C, Am, Em, Dm. Don't ask me about Bb. Nobody has a solution for that.

sm

Mr. Jelly · #24 10-23-2016, 05:19 AM

I can't do the thumb trick with an f chord with out doing a total body shift. And even then it doesn't come out clean. Yes I have short fingers. I wish I could but I can't.

beninma · #25 10-24-2016, 06:51 AM

I am starting to play around with trying to learn the F-chord with my index finger across all 6 strings.

I am seeing all kinds of different recommendations on how exactly to play this chord (thumb placement being a big thing that is different).

Last night I actually got a couple chords in this shape to sound OK down around the 5th Fret. I can't really do it barring the first fret.

But this seems to put a tremendous strain on my hand and wrist... any advice on what I'm doing wrong as I assume when you do this right it's not supposed to be that physical? When I first started playing Open Chords they seemed to strain my hand too but now they usually don't at all. But it was probably never as bad as trying to play this barre shape.

I have long thin fingers (I wear 2XL gloves, can just barely palm a basketball on a good day) if it matters at all. I haven't tried the thumb wrap but can easily do it.

One video I saw online the teacher was recommending the tip of your thumb be on the bottom 50% of the neck when viewing from the players position when making this shape. I'm finding that very hard, my thumb is just too long, I have to contort it or point it up towards the headstock to keep it on the bottom 50% of the neck. If I don't point my thumb weird I have to bend my wrist in a bad way to get my thumb down there. Other videos seem to want the thumb held straight parallel with the index finger and it will stick up past the top of the neck. Any advice here would be much appreciated!

I worked on these for ~15 minutes last night and my left arm is a little sore this morning..

MC5C · #26 10-24-2016, 11:49 AM

I read this thread, then I grabbed my guitar and tried the thumb wrap thing. What I found is that it locks up my hand so that I can't do much with the other fingers. If I play a normal barre F chord shape I can do all sorts of melody work with my little finger and ring finger. I can play the F, then F7, then F9 by moving one finger. If I need to transition from F to Bb, I don't have to change the shape of my hand, I just leave everything almost the same and flop my ring finger down to barre the 2,3,4 strings (I don't play the 1 string in that chord). That shift is almost the essence of rock and roll. I guess I am saying that while I can play a thumb-wrap, I find it to be so limiting and restricting that I absolutely never do it.

About the only time I commonly use a thumbwrap is if I am playing a 9/13 chord on the upper four strings and want to grab the root on the 6th string. The hand position for the upper strings makes that really intuitive. (an F 9/13 in first position would be thumb on the low F on the 6th string, then Eb on the 4th string, A on the third string, D on the 2nd string and G on the first string. Nice chord, give it a try if you don't use it. It's also very easy to barre the low F and the Eb, both are first fret played with the first finger, but it depends on what you came from and what comes next as to how you would play it.)

If you find the F barre chord hard to play, but you can play the same shape up the neck, then get the nut adjusted properly. That won't make it as easy, but it will make it easier.

Brian

beninma · #27 10-25-2016, 07:48 AM

Just curious if someone could weigh in on guitar setup here. I had mentioned I can actually do this shape further up the neck (say 5th fret), but the amount of force required up at the first fret to do the barre seems immense. I have a pretty strong grip (> 100lbs) and I'm having to squeeze the guitar really really hard to the point I'll strain something and I still can't get it to work.

Anyway I have feeler gauges and had seen mention that setup can effect how hard this is.

When I check the the neck relief (Capo on 1, push down at 14th fret), I am getting a measurement at the 6th fret of .006 or so. Which seems to indicate my neck is bent a bit more towards the back of the guitar than is optimal. (I found .010 as a starting point)

When I check clearance at the 13th fret to check the saddle the clearances are also low. I only did the Low E and high E but they were both low, I want to say also around .070 at the Low E and .065 at the high E.

When I then check at the First Fret as if to check the nut the values are high, they were maybe .025 or something like that. I believe these values would increase if the neck relief was changed too right?

My guitar got a really quick setup when I first got it, it couldn't have been more than 10 minutes of work. I didn't see what was done but I'm wondering if the person who set it up just cranked the truss rod and I could benefit by getting someone to check it more carefully. I am guessing I could benefit if the neck relief was brought up and saddle and/or nut slots were filed some.

Since I've never done this before I don't trust my measurements a ton but then this is also a relatively simple process.

This "harder to fret in the low frets" thing is obvious just playing single notes too FWIW.

stanron · #28 10-25-2016, 11:31 AM

Check out this article. Here's a quote;

"If the nut is too high, playing at the first fret will be seriously impaired"

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...nutaction.html

Norml · #29 10-25-2016, 02:16 PM

Easiest and quickest way to check the action at the nut is to press the string down between the 2nd and 3rd fret and look at the clearance above the first fret. It should just barely clear it. No more tha a hairs width or two.

beninma · #30 11-09-2016, 09:15 AM

Bumping this thread since there were some other more recent ones but this is the one I had responded to.

I just got my guitar back from a more thorough setup last night. If you're a beginner it is really worth finding someone good. It was a pain as it took a week and a half to get my guitar back but worth the wait.

I had been working off and on with the F chord up at the first position and it was very very hard. Lots of immediate hand strain and lots of buzzing and muted notes.

Got home last night, first one I tried was just about perfect. And the force required to do it is vastly less. Didn't even really feel any hand strain doing it. The setup made a HUGE difference. I went on to practice a version of Jingle bells that had the F chord in it for 30 minutes or so and my left hand didn't complain at all.

So I can't switch to the F chord at all without stopping and looking at the neck but at least for now I know I can get my fingers in the right place and it works.. and it doesn't strain my hand which means I can practice practice practice till I can actually use it in a song.