Martin 00-18G

[Longer]

Hi guys!
I wanted to reach out for your expertise.

I'm on the hunt for a vintage Martin nylon. I also have a preference for the chunkiest neck possible. My research has led me to the 00-18G, as I've read that it's V neck shape is a hand full.

So I must ask; Does anyone know if the 00-18G has the biggest necks of all the Martin Nylons? Are there years for the 00-18G that have bigger necks than others?

Any information is much appreciated and thank you for you help!

[CCFingerstyle]

First of all, there is a lot of information about the 18G on the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum in the "Classical Gas" section. They have search functionality, so you can enter 18G and find a lot of postings.

If you want a wider neck (not sure I would call it chunkier), you can look at the post-1969 Martin nylons. They will have 2-1/8" nuts versus the typical 2" nut of the pre-1970 Martin nylons. They also changed the scale to 26.44" (from 25.4") in 1970. So, all-in-all it will feel bigger in your hand. To me, the 16C, 18G, 18C, 28G, 28C all feel very similar and probably have identical or very close specs. I believe the 16C and 18C were both still in the lineup after 1969 (as was the 00-28C with the same change in nut and scale...East Indian Rosewood was substituted for the pre-1970 28Cs which were Brazilian Rosewood).

I do not think there are years where the 18G had bigger necks than others. They were discontinued in 1962, so no wider nut, longer scale versions were made. These necks were all essentially hand carved, so you might find slight differences. I doubt if you will find any significant differences.

BTW, after reading your posting, I went and picked up my 18G and I do not really consider it all that chunky. A bit maybe. I have relatively medium to small size hands and it feels quite comfortable to me. I guess chunkiness is a matter of personal opinion.

If you are not set on a Martin...for more "chunkiness" you might try some of the Takamine Hirade series like the TH5, TH5C, TH90 and so forth and so on. They are excellent guitars in a reasonable price range (similar to the 18G), especially used. Good electronics if you care anything about that...Chris

[Dave T]

A minor point but neither the 00-28C or the 00-18G I once owned had a v-neck profile. More of a "C" or "D" shape, depending on how you draw it. Just sayin'!

Dave

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by Dave T

A minor point but neither the 00-28C or the 00-18G I once owned had a v-neck profile. More of a "C" or "D" shape, depending on how you draw it.

Also agree. I would describe the neck on my 00-18G as in between a C and D shape. Rounder than the D shape of a typical classical, but not as chunky as a full C.
It's not a V, or even mod. V, as Dave said.
Have a good look at the info from Chris above, who's seen, and played, them all! (or nearly all)

[Longer]

Wow, the misinformation you can find!
Glad I came here. Thank you much guys for the information and help.

I'm a bit disappointed that the necks are not as chunky as I was led to believe, but I'm still a bit set on an 00-18G.
We'll see how it goes.

Thanks again!

[CCFingerstyle]

I agree with the above...I would not describe the 18G (or any of the others mentioned) as having a V shape. Agree with the C to D shape. Mine is probably leaning toward a D.

Having said that...being "set" on an 18G is a good thing! They are great instruments if they have been well cared for and within specs in terms of action and such. If you pursue it, I suggest you ask your questions of on the Martin forum. There are plenty of folks over there that know quite a bit about the details of these old Martin nylons.

Demo of Martin 00-18G

[Longer]

Originally Posted by CCFingerstyle

First of all, there is a lot of information about the 18G on the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum in the "Classical Gas" section. They have search functionality, so you can enter 18G and find a lot of postings.

If you want a wider neck (not sure I would call it chunkier), you can look at the post-1969 Martin nylons. They will have 2-1/8" nuts versus the typical 2" nut of the pre-1970 Martin nylons. They also changed the scale to 26.44" (from 25.4") in 1970. So, all-in-all it will feel bigger in your hand. To me, the 16C, 18G, 18C, 28G, 28C all feel very similar and probably have identical or very close specs. I believe the 16C and 18C were both still in the lineup after 1969 (as was the 00-28C with the same change in nut and scale...East Indian Rosewood was substituted for the pre-1970 28Cs which were Brazilian Rosewood).

I do not think there are years where the 18G had bigger necks than others. They were discontinued in 1962, so no wider nut, longer scale versions were made. These necks were all essentially hand carved, so you might find slight differences. I doubt if you will find any significant differences.

BTW, after reading your posting, I went and picked up my 18G and I do not really consider it all that chunky. A bit maybe. I have relatively medium to small size hands and it feels quite comfortable to me. I guess chunkiness is a matter of personal opinion.

If you are not set on a Martin...for more "chunkiness" you might try some of the Takamine Hirade series like the TH5, TH5C, TH90 and so forth and so on. They are excellent guitars in a reasonable price range (similar to the 18G), especially used. Good electronics if you care anything about that...Chris

Chris, I got to thank you, not only for your reply, but also for your videos, and in general, the knowledge your willing to share here and over at the UMGF.

I would post over there, but I guess I'm still being "approved". Still, I've gone through the classical gas pages and really been enjoying my research.

Also, and after looking for a bit, I pull the trigger on a 56! Guess I'll see for myself what her neck shape is like!









Like myself, she has some issues, a crack repair on the bottom, (supposedly professionally repaired) and what looks like capo damage to the finish on the back of the neck, (was told there was no indention to the wood).

I'm taking her to Maple Street Guitars here in Atlanta once she gets here. We'll find out what is what, and then I'll be able to decide if I need to return her or not.

Thanks again to all, I'm sure if I keep her I'll post more about her.

[CCFingerstyle]

Originally Posted by Longer

Chris, I got to thank you, not only for your reply, but also for your videos, and in general, the knowledge your willing to share here and over at the UMGF.

I would post over there, but I guess I'm still being "approved". Still, I've gone through the classical gas pages and really been enjoying my research.

Also, and after looking for a bit, I pull the trigger on a 56! Guess I'll see for myself what her neck shape is like!

Like myself, she has some issues, a crack repair on the bottom, (supposedly professionally repaired) and what looks like capo damage to the finish on the back of the neck, (was told there was no indention to the wood).

I'm taking her to Maple Street Guitars here in Atlanta once she gets here. We'll find out what is what, and then I'll be able to decide if I need to return her or not.

Thanks again to all, I'm sure if I keep her I'll post more about her.

Congratulations and welcome to the "18G Club" I hope it checks out okay for you. If not, there are plenty around (5,138 were built from around 1936 to 1962, including 200 in 1956) and they eventually show up quite often at reasonable prices. If the action is right and it does not need a reset, I predict you will like it a lot. Even the cracks, if under control, should not affect the performance of the instrument that much.

Your next big hurdle, if all checks out, is string preference. It has been my observation that strings make a huge difference in the performance of these particular guitars. It will get confusing if you ask the group since many of us have different string preferences. If you ask, do not pay too much attention to us (including me).The only way you will find out what you like best is experimentation. Just look at it as fun and you will eventually figure it out.

Dents and dings in the back of the neck are quite common. Not a big deal to me. I rarely notice such things when playing. If you need a better case, check with Elderly's. They have a pretty good selection. Have fun with it! A video would be nice when you get it settled in if you are willing to share a tune with us.

I'm a rookie at this stuff. If you have serious questions, ask the gang over at UMGF. They are the experts.

Chris

[Gitfiddlemann]

I would also like to extend my hearty congratulations on a great looking 00-18G! Really nice.
I feel the same as Chris. There's something unique about these old Martins. They have a warmth and easy playability that make them very special, and I hope you will find the neck to your liking. It certainly will feel meatier than a mod. V or V shape. I hope she becomes a keeper and I'll look forward to more posts down the road.
As Chris said, welcome to the club!

[Longer]

Originally Posted by AndreF

I would also like to extend my hearty congratulations on a great looking 00-18G! Really nice.
I feel the same as Chris. There's something unique about these old Martins. They have a warmth and easy playability that make them very special, and I hope you will find the neck to your liking. It certainly will feel meatier than a mod. V or V shape. I hope she becomes a keeper and I'll look forward to more posts down the road.
As Chris said, welcome to the club!

Thanks Andre!

I've toyed with the idea for years, but never had the chance to play an old Martin nylon, so this is pretty exciting! I don't know if it is going to sound, respond, or feel right for me, but for a variety of reasons I'm just drawn to a 00-18G.

On this one I like the pictures, but that spot on the back of her neck already bugs me, and I bet she looks a bit more beat up in person. You know, you typically get what you pay for, and this was on the lower end of the scale. At the same time, you never know until you know, and I can't wait to find out! Haha

By the end of next week I will know a lot more. :-)

[Longer]

Wow Andre, just saw your video. Your ballad is outstanding. Not only was the playing nice but your guitar sounded so alive! Loved it.

I'm trying to temper my excitement a bit, but the videos from you and Chris are not helping! :-)

[Longer]

Originally Posted by CCFingerstyle

Congratulations and welcome to the "18G Club" I hope it checks out okay for you. If not, there are plenty around (5,138 were built from around 1936 to 1962, including 200 in 1956) and they eventually show up quite often at reasonable prices. If the action is right and it does not need a reset, I predict you will like it a lot. Even the cracks, if under control, should not affect the performance of the instrument that much.

Your next big hurdle, if all checks out, is string preference. It has been my observation that strings make a huge difference in the performance of these particular guitars. It will get confusing if you ask the group since many of us have different string preferences. If you ask, do not pay too much attention to us (including me).The only way you will find out what you like best is experimentation. Just look at it as fun and you will eventually figure it out.

Dents and dings in the back of the neck are quite common. Not a big deal to me. I rarely notice such things when playing. If you need a better case, check with Elderly's. They have a pretty good selection. Have fun with it! A video would be nice when you get it settled in if you are willing to share a tune with us.

I'm a rookie at this stuff. If you have serious questions, ask the gang over at UMGF. They are the experts.

Chris

Chris, thank you.
From all my reading I know you once liked the Oasis GPX Normals, maybe the NPX at one point? I'd be silly not to try to learn from other people's experience, so I must ask, which strings do you like these days?

And Andre, if your reading this, please let me know what strings you used on your video!

About the condition on my 56, little nicks and such doesn't bother me, and I've seen a lot worse on my hunt! But here are 2 picks showing why her price was on the low side.



That spot behind the first fret is worrisome. I'm not into trying to make a 60 year old guitar look new, but if that spot is annoying to my hand I'll have to have something done about it.

And here is that big crack at the bottom:



I bet this would be a deal breaker for many, I kind of have mixed feelings on it. We'll see how I feel once I hold her.

On the plus side, Maple Street Guitars is the best in Atlanta when it comes to acoustics, so I know I'll be receiving great advice once she's here.

Can you tell the anticipation is getting to me? :-)
Thanks again for y'all's advise and well wishes!

[CCFingerstyle]

I still prefer the Oasis GPX normal tension on my 18G (but not necessarily on my other nylons).

I predict the spot on the back of the neck is not going to bother you. It is the action that makes the biggest difference. As I have mentioned before, if it starts to creep up too far above 4/32s, they are no longer fun to play (my preference, others may be fine with it).

If the price was right, think of the 18G as a beater/campfire guitar...and if you like it, you can always buy a better one in the future. I once owned two 18Gs at the same time. At the time, I lived in a two-story home, so I rationalized that I needed an upstairs and downstairs version of that model. Get creative in your GAS thinking and you can rationalize almost anything when it comes to guitars. You can always compare the condition of any guitar you acquire to Willie Nelson's 1969 Martin N20. Every guitar that is still in one piece is in better shape than Trigger.

Chris

[tkoehler1]

Congratulations on picking up a great old guitar!

I had an old 00-18G a few years ago and sold it, and regretted it ever since.

Also does anyone have a preference between the G and C models? I understand the difference is in the body shape (with the G being a 14-fret body and c being 12-fret body, or is that just the 28 series?).

Also tone difference between 18 and 28 series would be interesting to get some opinions. The old 00-28G or C certainly are more expensive.

TK

[Gitfiddlemann]

Hi Longer,
Thanks much for the nice comments, and also for the additional pics.
I can understand your anticipation. If you paid a low price, and these issues turn out to just cosmetic, you could be getting a great value guitar for the money.
But as Chris said, these guitars do seem to come up for sale on a regular basis, so you can afford to be as choosy as you like. (Keeping in mind of course that finding them at great prices these days is becoming rarer.)
Re: Neck spot
Good that you will be checking that out for yourself. It's hard to tell from the photo. If it is just a surface finish issue, i.e. no denting, then it might be something that you may not sense at all while playing, or be very easy to fix. You'll be able to tell if it turns out to be something more serious, in which case a good repair person would need to get involved. I agree: Necks are super important!
Re: crack
It may not look the greatest, but I don't think that it affects the tone any in its present form, but do check with the store experts to ascertain if it has been possibly repaired, or to make sure it is stable. If it is, then it becomes a cosmetic issue only. (If you compare it with Willie Nelson's Trigger, it looks mint!)
The top does look pristine though, as does the back. You have at least that as a given, which is a big plus.
One thing about these Gs is that you can really the dial in the action to be very low, which is great. They really do play super easy.
Have a look at the overall neck to make sure it is straight and/or is not in need of a reset. Sure looks fine from the pics. The saddle looks good too, although a side view would be more telling.

And Andre, if your reading this, please let me know what strings you used on your video!

I'm using my own favorites, which are Savarez Corum high tension basses and D'Addario J46 Pro Arte clear nylon trebles, also in high tension.
Note though that I'm kind of an anomaly in this regard. Most over at UMGF (Chris included I'm pretty sure) are of the opinion that standard tension is the better choice for this model. I've tried many but I keep going back to my HT strings, on which I was weaned. Probably feel more than anything.
This is why Chris mentioned the need for each to experiment on their own. Trying out the Oasis set he prefers would be a good place to start.

Anyway, food for thought. Have a great visit at Maple Guitars, and hope you bring her home after all is said and done. If not, don't get too bummed. Keep yours eyes peeled for more to show up.
Good luck!