mic test... - Page 3

Joseph Hanna · #31 07-27-2016, 10:36 AM

We've of course discussed this a zillion times before but it appears it's probably worth mentioning again. A good room trumps everything in an acoustic guitar recording except the talent. Choice of microphones is at, or near the bottom of the list. On a scale of 1 to 10 (at least in my experience) a good sounding room is a 10, choices and differences in microphones a 1.

I suspect all of us at one point or another have Titanically underestimated how vital creating a good sounding space is in the recording process. I'll take your AT 2020 and a great sounding space over a Neumann M-149 virtually 100% of the time. It's important to note that a great sounding space doesn't have to be expensive and it can absolutely be worked on bit by bit piece by piece. A continual work in progress if you will.

You seem to be (at least peripherally) lumping Auralex and blankets from Harbor Freight into the category of a good sounding room which frankly neither do a lick of good. I do understand sound proofing a space if neighbors are a problem but conceptionally sound proofing should be considered a separate element altogether.

I think most here are just trying to emphasize how enormously important your room is. Certainly if you realize this (and you already may) and choose to go in another direction that's cool as well!

Yamaha Man · #32 07-27-2016, 10:37 AM

Yep, I'm a pack rat. But it's amazing that when I need something, I already have it. It's just years of acquisitions are catching up with me.

Yamaha Man · #33 07-27-2016, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

We've of course discussed this a zillion times before but it appears it's probably worth mentioning again. A good room trumps everything in an acoustic guitar recording except the talent. Choice of microphones is at, or near the bottom of the list. On a scale of 1 to 10 (at least in my experience) a good sounding room is a 10, choices and differences in microphones a 1.

I suspect all of us at one point or another have Titanically underestimated how vital creating a good sounding space is in the recording process. I'll take your AT 2020 and a great sounding space over a Neumann M-149 virtually 100% of the time. It's important to note that a great sounding space doesn't have to be expensive and it can absolutely be worked on bit by bit piece by piece. A continual work in progress if you will.

You seem to be (at least peripherally) lumping Auralex and blankets from Harbor Freight into the category of a good sounding room which frankly neither do a lick of good. I do understand sound proofing a space if neighbors are a problem but conceptionally sound proofing should be considered a separate element altogether.

I think most here are just trying to emphasize how enormously important your room is. Certainly if you realize this (and you already may) and choose to go in another direction that's cool as well!

Due to financial reasons, building a great sounding room is out of the question. At one point it was in the plan, but due to layoffs, and medical reasons, getting a larger house has become out of the question, so I have to live with what I have.

I have surprised myself on how good of recordings I can get of my acoustic guitar. And that was my original goal. Screaming guitars, monster drum sets, won't work here. I can build drum tracks on my computer with Sonar. I can get screaming guitar sounds thru a line out off my Orange Micro Dark amp. I can do vocals in my living room. I can add lush sounding effects with Sonar. I can use my midi equipment, sound modules, and sample programs to add pop, orchestral or synth sounds as needed. And that doesn't require a great sounding room. Yes you could buy an expensive grand piano, and expensive room, expensive mics, OR use a quality sound sample program and a midi controller and end up with very similar results. I use Ivory II Piano samples and get fabulous sounds.

Sonar is an incredible program. I recorded 9 tracks of separate performances of an acoustic guitar thru all my different mics and some stereo combinations. I can toggle each track on and off to compare mic sounds. I found this to be extremely helpful in helping me to learn each mic's capabilities and limits. I was surprised at the results. Going back and listening to these tracks today with fresh ears...I was very impressed with the sound of the MXL 603S stereo pair of pencil mics. I pretty much had forgotten about them, but they do a great job for a stereo recording.

Yamaha Man · #34 07-28-2016, 12:30 AM

You might ask, if I'm already getting quality recordings, why buy a Neumann TLM102 mic ?? Why spend the money ?? I've asked myself these questions many times, and my response is, "continuous improvement". I want to take my studio to the next level, I've heard many samples of the 102 mic and all have been very good. Years ago I took a class in music production at the local community college. Part of our classes took place in a very well equipped professional recording studio. They had many mics there, including some very old classics that cost big bucks. They used good mics and the recordings came out great. The names Neumann and Neve were used extensively. Over the years I've read many great things about Neumann mics,,,so now I have a chance to get a used Neumann for around $500 bucks. That my friends, is a big deal to me. The 102 mic was designed by Neumann to be an affordable quality mic for the home studio. That's right up my alley. The 102 mic gets rave reviews from many people including magazine reviews. I heard on a video review where the guy compared the 102 to the Blue Baby Bottle mic. They both sounded very similar and would make a great pair for stereo recordings. At the end of the day though, the bottom line is I'll have a NEUMANN mic in my studio !!!! That is cause for celebration !! This particular mic was bought new from Sweetwater and used in one recording session. It's advertised as being in perfect condition. It was just too good to pass up.

alohachris · #35 07-28-2016, 12:39 PM

Aloha Martin Maniac,

Due to financial reasons, building a great sounding room is out of the question. At one point it was in the plan, but due to layoffs, and medical reasons, getting a larger house has become out of the question, so I have to live with what I have.

As a life-long renter, I've never been able to build a permanent studio anywhere. But I never have problems controlling my space anymore because I invested time & some money into building my own portable, DIY room treatment. And I learned about controlling spaces & mic placement over many decades of recording.

I made 22, 4"x2'x4' OC 703 broadband absorbers that I place strategically in my recording space. I use some as bass traps in the corners, & plenty around & above my editing desk. I use two on each side, front & back & above where I track. This creates a portable "room within a room" that allows me to control whatever shaped room I'm dealt. Believe me, I've rented spaces that have been wildly varied in materials & shape. It works no matter what.

I'd recommend you put your mover's blankets (which only work - mildly, no real audible effect - on mid-range freq's) over windows, doors or pictures on the wall & then build some DIY broadband absorbers to control the early reflections in your room. Start by metering your space to see where the nodes are. Make four to nine absorbers to start. You will instantly hear the difference in your recordings ( more consistency, better defined frequency spectrum, less mid-range mush, & lots more clarity).

Adequate Room Treatment is the only way to maximize your recording signal chain, especially mic's. Without it, you are wasting time & money, IMO. The 102 is a pretty good mic for acoustic guitar. Why not give it the treatment that will make it shine?

Here's how to DIY on the cheap using Walmart products & OC 703 rigid fiberglass (the standard of pro studios). You can order OC 703 from an Acoustic Materials Supplier - double up the 2" thick panels & cover w/ nice fabric):

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lni_4HpwmZk

Another great source:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stud...ing-acoustics/

Ethan Winer's Room Treatment Bible:

http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Room Treatment will make the biggest difference in your recordings, Martin Maniac. So Do It Yourself cheaply. Store the portable absorbers when not in use. You need it, brother!

alohachris

Yamaha Man · #36 07-28-2016, 01:05 PM

Alohachris, Thanks for the input but I simply don't have room for acoustic panels. I'm totally cramped up for space as it is...

RedJoker · #37 07-28-2016, 01:44 PM

I'm no expert but I've always used a car analogy. If I drive on a dirt road, I'm really limiting the performance of my car. Sure, I could buy a Ferrari and it might be slightly better than the other cars but driving a Civic on a paved racetrack is far better than a Ferrari on a dirt road. (Car = Microphone and Road = Room Treatment in this analogy)

But I get it, I haven't treated my recording room either. Mainly because my playing is still the weak point of the signal chain.

alohachris · #38 07-28-2016, 01:57 PM

Aloha Martin Maniac,

A Picture's Worth A Thousand Words. Just tryin' to help. Those sites I sent are worth a looksee.

Good Luck!

alohachris

Yamaha Man · #39 07-28-2016, 02:10 PM

Yes they are. I used to read Ethan Winer's posts a lot on other forums. He has lot's to say about room treatments.

alohachris · #40 07-28-2016, 02:23 PM

Sorry, duplicate post

Yamaha Man · #41 07-28-2016, 02:32 PM

I got my shock mounts today. One for the 102 and a replacement for the V-69. The original one was a pain to keep strung up as the bands were way too loose. I found the replacement at New Egg for about $12 bucks. It was a bit tight but I managed to get it to work.

The shock mount I bought for the 102 cost about $50 but is designed for the 102 mic. It's really a sweet shock mount, should work out perfectly.

I also bought a stereo mic mounting bar that will hold two mics. I'm using that one for the 603S mics, and my old stereo bar for the 102 and Baby Bottle mic. The old stereo bar is a bit longer and will give a little better separation. Both bars are adjustable to various positions.

The 102 mic is scheduled for delivery on Saturday.

Yamaha Man · #42 07-28-2016, 03:20 PM

Ha ha ha...I fixed the old MXL shock mount with a couple of women's hair bands I got from the Dollar Store. They fit perfect !! So now I had an extra shock mount and it dawned on me I needed a shock mount for the AT 2020. So I tried it and made it work. Again a little bit tight, but I did get it to work. So now all my mics have nice looking shock mounts on them.

KevWind · #43 07-28-2016, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Maniac

Alohachris, Thanks for the input but I simply don't have room for acoustic panels. I'm totally cramped up for space as it is...here's pic so you can see what I mean...

Actually all that clutter is in some ways two edged sword. What is does do is act like diffusors which acoustically speaking can be be a good thing.
What it probably does not do, is contribute to the organizational aspect of the creative process

Yamaha Man · #44 07-28-2016, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevWind

Actually all that clutter is in some ways two edged sword. What is does do is act like diffusors which acoustically speaking can be be a good thing.
What it probably does not do, is contribute to the organizational aspect of the creative process

OH but yes it does !!! Everything is all set up and ready to record at a moment's notice. Having all the gear ready to go is half the battle. Setting stuff up can turn into a huge creativity killer when the mood is right. It may look like a mess to you, but to me, everything is right where I want it...just flick a switch, plug and play or a couple more switches and plug and record.

At my music production classes, we'd spend half the class room time setting up and just a few minutes doing actual recordings because we'd run out of time. My rig is ready to go anytime and doesn't have to be torn down.

What's really a creativity killer is trying to book a studio, and waiting for an open time slot which may take weeks. I like this setup better.

KevWind · #45 07-29-2016, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Maniac

OH but yes it does !!! Everything is all set up and ready to record at a moment's notice. Having all the gear ready to go is half the battle.

Yes having things set up and ready to go is certainly beneficial to the creative process..... but of course having your system ready to go does not mean the space must also feel cluttered, they are to completely different concepts. One is efficiency and the other is vibe.

I was actually just teasing a bit about the possible psychological aspects of a cluttered space. As I also have to constantly battle the build up of clutter in my studio / attic mancave and garage