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#1
06-13-2017, 01:19 PM
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Tubes........ an observation
Some years ago I went all solid state and got rid of my tube amps.
I have serviced industrial electronics for 39 years some tube equipment early on. So I have a good working knowledge of electronics. One of the amps was a old Fender Deluxe. I removed the tube chassis and replaced it with a Fender Sidekick 65 I cut down the chassis to fit in place of the old one. The result was from a distance it looked like a old deluxe. I used it in a pit band for a variety show. After the show one night a "tube person" came up to me and said "nothing beats the sound of those old tube amps". I said no they don't. He couldn't hear that it was not tube but solid state neither could I. So the observation in this case is if it looks like a tube amp then it sounds like a tube amp. I now use a Loudbox Mini. The Sidekick got rebuilt again into a small light bass amp.
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"My opinion is worth every penny you paid for it." "If you try to play like someone else, Who will play like you". Quote from Johnny Gimble The only musician I have to impress today is the musician I was yesterday. No tubes, No capos, No Problems. 
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#2
06-13-2017, 01:42 PM
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That's absolutely hilarious!!!
I'm right there with you. Electronic repair from 30 years back. But, I'll have to say solidstate couldn't touch it well until those A/D convertors got really fine and really fast. I now take my iPad in and plug into a Sonic Port interface connected to it....out to a DI which loops the 1/4 into a personal amp on a mic stand...and the XLR then feeds the house system. BiasFX does and AMAZING job of replicating your tube amp of choice...even to setting up hot/cold bias or the style of transformer, number of gain stages, etc., AND a pedal chain to boot! If I played a few songs (vs. 1-2 now) I'd likely invest in the bluetooth pedal switch. Still...it has crossed my mind to take an old tube amp chassis and outfit it with the iPad hidden. Just for grins!
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<{()}>< <{()}>< <{()}>< <{()}>< <{()}>< bradM - SW Ohio - love to pick! <{()}>< <{()}>< <{()}>< <{()}>< <{()}><
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#3
06-13-2017, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
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"Mistaking silence for weakness and contempt for fear is the final, fatal error of a fool" - Sicilian proverb (paraphrased)
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#4
06-13-2017, 03:38 PM
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however, like steve, i have three SS amps-roland cube60d, marshall lead 12 and fender bronco, one of which is going to be turned into a tube amp. play music!
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2014 Martin 00015M 2009 Martin 0015M 2008 Martin HD28 2007 Martin 000-18GE 2006 Taylor 712 2006 Fender Parlor GDP100 1978 Fender F65 1968 Gibson B25-12N Various Electrics
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#5
06-13-2017, 07:43 PM
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Tubes and solid state are fairly equal until you get into over-driven distortion. I've never heard a solid state emulator, modeling device, what ever actually sound the same as an over-driven tube amp. Sound good - sure. Sound better - for the thing at hand, absolutely. But the same as an overdriven tube stage? nope. It's all in the ears. If it sounds good to you, then it's good. I happen to like over-driving a 12AX7 every once in a while, so I keep one on hand.
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Brian Evans Around 15 archtops, electrics, resonators, a lap steel, a uke, a mandolin, some I made, some I bought, some kinda showed up and wouldn't leave. Tatamagouche Nova Scotia.
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#6
06-13-2017, 08:00 PM
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Solid state does great cleans - listen to Pat Metheny; that's all he uses. I like solid state clean, but like to pair it with the tone of an old tube Fender through a JBL D120F....it's a big rich sound.
Both are good and both together can be additive to create great sounds.
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#7
06-14-2017, 09:27 AM
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So what you are saying is that you found one person out there in the world who doesn't really know what a good tube amp sounds like. I'm sure there are plenty more.
 I've been playing some of my COSM models through a loudbox and it sounds amazingly well. I was quite surprised actually. Best sounding SS amp I ever played was the Roland JC-120. Love those amps!
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#8
06-14-2017, 12:42 PM
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 (small wonder they were co-opted by the metal crowd). Good news is that they're grossly underpriced (and underappreciated) in today's market - someone over on the Archtop forum scored a 120W/2x10" for around $100 a while back, and 2x12"/1x15" versions regularly sell in the $175-250 range - so if you need lots of watts with vintage-style features and/or a good pedal platform, I can't think of anything near the price built to a comparable standard of quality...
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"Mistaking silence for weakness and contempt for fear is the final, fatal error of a fool" - Sicilian proverb (paraphrased)
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#9
06-14-2017, 03:10 PM
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#10
06-14-2017, 07:13 PM
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There's a big difference between someone "hearing" someone else play and playing said amp yourself. Also many of the comparisons of modelers vs tubes amps tend to be static. I have an old silver face Deluxe reverb that my tech put in a Bandmaster head shell and converted it to black face specs. He also replaced the output transformer with a Bandmaster transformer which doesn't increase volume but makes the amp sound bigger as it will translate low end better.
Running that particular amp at around 7 or 3/4's up and going from clean tones to distorted tones by adjusting the guitar volume will not happen in the same manner as the Sidekick or most SS amps. They aren't designed for output stage distortion nor will they have a similar response.SS also reacts differently as they do not employ output transformers and have different damping factors with guitar speakers than their tube amp cousins. Not to say they can't sound good or work with pedals but usually this debate is about players that have either not have had success with tube amp's, don't wish to carry and maintain them or really never really learned how to "play" these types of amp's I use SS amp's and have a couple. I have no issue with them but I also know what they can and can't do. In certain instances I'll choose one over a tube amp. My question to the OP is what was your reason for carving up a vintage tube amp and turning it into a SS amp?
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#11
06-14-2017, 08:34 PM
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Carved up
Quote:
I got enough money from the deluxe chassis (silver face) to buy my Loudbox with a lot left over. The second carving was to make it lighter and smaller.
__________________
"My opinion is worth every penny you paid for it." "If you try to play like someone else, Who will play like you". Quote from Johnny Gimble The only musician I have to impress today is the musician I was yesterday. No tubes, No capos, No Problems.
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#12
06-14-2017, 08:53 PM
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You seem a little testy. I wasn't trying to bait you (sorry if I did) just responding to your statement. Obviously I misunderstood the mod to your amp. While I do dabble in NOS tubes my Deluxe runs just fine with newer tubes as do most of my amps. I really don't think old tubes were really that much better it's just that in the old days many tubes were manufactured for military and medical use which is why those tubes were made or picked for higher standards. My one amp is designed around newer EL84's which can take higher plate voltages than older EL84's. You don't want to hit those with 400VDC.
Fine that you don't want to use old technology, of course when was the last time you went out to dinner and asked for a steak cooked in a microwave? You probably have a car that has wheels. Wheels are not a "new" technology. A solid state amp isn't all that much newer tech than tubes when you get right down to it. Unless you're talking modeling amps. Of course that's a different conversation. Personally, I don't have a love affair with tubes per se but I just haven't found a solid state amp or modeler that can do what my tube amps do. Until then... If you're going to make a thread with an observation don't be surprised if everyone doesn't agree though... Perhaps you're not using your amp for electric guitar. The Loudbox isn't what I'd call a great choice for electric unless you're maybe playing jazz on an archtop or something.
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#13
06-15-2017, 01:40 AM
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There are some analog solidstate amps that are very pleasing in overdrive too. I have one: a Sessionette 75. Session has some improved recent offerings too. In USA, you are more likely to encounter a Roland Blues Cube, Tech21 Trademark series, or Quilter's amps.
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Breedlove, Landola, a couple of electrics, and a guitar-shaped-object
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#14
06-15-2017, 09:08 AM
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I think the OP's "comparison" by a spectator was priceless. It sounds like the guitar world equivalent on a "sleeper". You know, the old bomb of a car that is pure performance under the bonnet. I like the story.
I also agree that in some circumstances, valve sounds cannot be replicated, however, to the average Noddy, they wouldn't have a clue. I prefer old Marshal valve heads, only 'cause I like the sound, but, my playing is such that any ole' amp will do. Currently I'm running all my instruments through a Roland Cube 30 Bass Amp at home for practice and a Stage Master (all solid state) 100W Bass Amp at Church. Both perform adequately for now.
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Maton CE60D Ibanez Blazer Washburn Taurus T25NMK
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#15
06-16-2017, 07:20 AM
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