Pick-Up for Taylor 412: K&K or Baggs Lyric?

[Ed-in-Ohio]

I've narrowed my choices down to these two...

Which of these two aftermarket pickups would be a better choice for a recent Taylor 412: The K&K Pure Mini, or the L.R. Baggs Lyric?

Playing style is about 50% strumming and 50% fingerpicking (usually with a thumbpick). Music played is solo and small ensemble Americana singer/songwriter played mostly through a Carvin AG200, but also sometimes directly into a PA.

As a point of reference, I know that the K&K sounds great into the Carvin (even without a pre-amp), though in fairness, everything (both active and passive) seems to sound great through the Carvin.

In terms of pre-amps, I have the Fire Eye Red-Eye, but usually do not use it when playing my K&K equipped guitars through the Carvin because it doesn't really seem to enhance things much.

Any and all input and comments welcome.

[Cuki79]

As a Lyric owner, I'd say Lyric needs serious EQ capability to sound good.

Whey don't you go for the ES2?

Cuki

[guitaniac]

The Pure Mini seems to do well in small guitars. Beyond that, the Lyric can be problematic in some guitars. (I agree with Cuki on that, although its sounds great {no EQ required} with the most recent Lyric-equipped guitar that I've been running sound for.)

I thought that you were wanting to use one mic for everything?

If an externally miked sound is your heart's desire, I suspect you'll eventually be considering ToneDexter. The current anecdotal evidence is suggesting that ToneDexter works better with the Pure Mini than with the Lyric system.

[Ed-in-Ohio]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

...snip...
I thought that you were wanting to use one mic for everything?
...snip...

Over this weekend I've done some serious A/B/C-ing (pickup only, mic [Pro 37] only, pickup + mic) of all my guitars through the Carvin.

Doing these comparisons, even in the quiet, familiar, and controlled environment of my rehearsal room, I'd have to say (if I am totally honest with myself), that the sound quality difference between these three set-ups is pretty minimal. If forced to pick a "best sounding" set-up, I'd have to say that "pickup + mic" probably won for all my guitar/pickup combinations.

Combine this with the loss of separate EQ capability for vox & guitar, and I'm coming to the belief that the drawbacks of using a single mic outweigh the potential benefits.

[Ed-in-Ohio]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

As a Lyric owner, I'd say Lyric needs serious EQ capability to sound good.

Whey don't you go for the ES2?

Cuki

Thanks for the reply Cuki. My Carvin amp has a fairly robust three band EQ section with a very effective parametric mid band sweep. Have your found that once you "dial the lyric in" you are good to go, or do you need to adjust it differently for every room?

Also, I thought the ES2 was not a practical retrofit option for guitars with no electronics?

[Vancebo]

I have had both of those pickups in guitars. The parametric mids of your amp will indeed help matters. I have found there is no one setting and forget it for any pickup. Both can be problematic to EQ and then both can be quite good set flat. Every users' experience, tastes and ears vary.

My advice to you is pick one and don't turn back.

My Dazzos are installed perfectly to sound great set flat. Any EQ change needed for a situation is minimal and very easy. They sound very much like a microphone hyped on steroids and can be tailored for your guitar and playing style. I give this plug to you free of charge as a public service announcement since they are still handmade by one guy in Sunnyvale, Ca.

[martingitdave]

If you play a style of music that requires a lot of bass, then you'll need to choose the K&K over the Lyric. If you are playing finger style compositions, and can rely on good EQ, the Lyric might be OK. Is the Trance Amulet out of the question? What about the Anthem SL?


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[pieterh]

Originally Posted by Ed-in-Ohio

Thanks for the reply Cuki. My Carvin amp has a fairly robust three band EQ section with a very effective parametric mid band sweep. Have your found that once you "dial the lyric in" you are good to go, or do you need to adjust it differently for every room?



Also, I thought the ES2 was not a practical retrofit option for guitars with no electronics?

Retrofitting an ES2 should not be a major problem for Taylor, check their website for the cost of a new installation.


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[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Ed-in-Ohio

Thanks for the reply Cuki. My Carvin amp has a fairly robust three band EQ section with a very effective parametric mid band sweep. Have your found that once you "dial the lyric in" you are good to go, or do you need to adjust it differently for every room?

Also, I thought the ES2 was not a practical retrofit option for guitars with no electronics?

1) I've tried to EQ my Lyric with a plugin that enabled me to have as many bands as I wanted.
2) I've bought a D-tar Equinox on purpose.

So I had 3 parametric and 2 notches. But I only used one notch.
3) I found my self always re-ajusting the parametric EQ, so I started my IR convolution project. I did not try the Equinox in different rooms. Very early I knew it would be too complex and the different posts on the AGF convinced me that the Lyric needed an IR.

You are going to ask me: "Why the Lyric?"

Well I wanted to have the response of a microphone. IR convolution does not change the dynamic of your pickup. So you still feel the mic/UST/AST character. I think you can hear that on the multiple sample of Tonedexter that have been recently post. I wanted that mic character.

Also, I thought the ES2 was not a practical retrofit option for guitars with no electronics?

ES2 installation has to be made by Taylor dealer. In Europe, they send the guitar to Amsterdam where it is done professionally at Taylor's European headquaters. One thing for sure: there is no going back from that.

[AeroUSA]

The latest ES2 is awesome. I love it.

[Wasper]

I voted k&k. To me, that type of pick-up reproduces the acoustic sound of the guitar the most accurately. Every other system sounds slightly off to me.

Personally, I went with the JJB Prestige 330 with 15mm transducers because it was less money ($49). I wanted to try one without breaking the bank. It sounds great and I have since installed these in two additional guitars. Basing off of that, I wouldn't hesitate to get the k&k, since they are pretty much on par with each other.

Link for JJB , in case you are curious.
http://jjb-electronics.com/prestige-330.html

Some threads I've posted about with my experiences with the bridge plate transducer pick-ups.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=244800

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=389732

I Iike these types of pick-ups, as the are just about as unobtrusive as it gets, doesn't require a battery source and does not change the pure acoustic sound of the guitar in any way.

[SpruceTop]

I recommend either retro-fitting your Taylor with the ES2 or adding the Trance Amulet M.

[Ed-in-Ohio]

Originally Posted by pieterh

Retrofitting an ES2 should not be a major problem for Taylor, check their website for the cost of a new installation.

Originally Posted by Cuki79

...snip...ES2 installation has to be made by Taylor dealer. ...snip...

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

The latest ES2 is awesome. I love it.

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I recommend either retro-fitting your Taylor with the ES2 ...snip...

I can't find anything on the Taylor site (or the web in general) about purchaing the ES2 system aftermarket. (and I'm pretty good about finding stuff like this.)

I am very much a "plug-and-play" guy, so I'm very likely to find a "best setting" of EQ, preamp, etc., and just live with that. (This is just the way I am).

I think I am leaning heavily toward the K&K. I have it in two of my current guitars, and have had it in several others as well. I've never had trouble finding a decent EQ setting for it.

I love how the ES2 sounds in my GS Mini-e Koa, but considering my track record with the K&K and the ease of installation, it seems a much safer bet.

Thanks everyone.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Ed-in-Ohio

I can't find anything on the Taylor site (or the web in general) about purchaing the ES2 system aftermarket. (and I'm pretty good about finding stuff like this.)



I am very much a "plug-and-play" guy, so I'm very likely to find a "best setting" of EQ, preamp, etc., and just live with that. (This is just the way I am).



I think I am leaning heavily toward the K&K. I have it in two of my current guitars, and have had it in several others as well. I've never had trouble finding a decent EQ setting for it.



I love how the ES2 sounds in my GS Mini-e Koa, but considering my track record with the K&K and the ease of installation, it seems a much safer bet.



Thanks everyone.

Ed, I think the cost was in the neighborhood of $300, plus shipping each way, for Taylor to install the ES2. So, you'd be in for $400, plus a few weeks. In my opinion, that too much to spend on a $1800 guitar, unless it is a very special guitar for gigs. If you wanted top of the Line, the Trance Amulet would also be a good choice. But, if I were in your shoes, I might just do the K&K and call it a day. However, if you can purchase a used Lyric, or get one from a retailer that takes returns, it might be worrying the investment of a few hours to experiment with it. Otherwise, super glue away and move on. :-)


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[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Ed-in-Ohio

I can't find anything on the Taylor site (or the web in general) about purchaing the ES2 system aftermarket. (and I'm pretty good about finding stuff like this.)

See at the end of this link
Expression System 2® Upgrade or Install:
https://www.taylorguitars.com/support/service-packages