ToneDexter Thread (continuation of original thread)

[guitaniac]

Matt,

Are you saying that you still have "dimensionality" issues with the character knob turned all the way counter-clockwise (to get the minimum possible amount of airyness and spaciousness in the signal)?

If so, I'd still try it in some actual gigging settings before giving up on ToneDexter, or giving up on using ToneDexter with that particular rig.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

So I just spent over an hour with the ToneDexter. My mission was to try everything I could to get a good sound with my Trance Audio Amulet M guitar.

I tried the SM57 and I tried the Oktava in 3 or 4 different positions.

I'm a bit torn. The sound I'm getting is nice at low volumes but when I turn it up a bit, while it has more depth and dimensionality than just the straight Amulet, that dimensionality causes trouble.

Certain notes/frequencies will be a bit too boomy, etc. The overall sound is a bit too "mic-like" if that makes any sense. (Going back to my times fooling around with the Fishman Aura, I would reaching for the blend knob to bring more pickup into the equation.)

I'm intentionally turning up my PA a bit too loud for the room I'm in but I do that to see what might happen in a venue.

When I go back to the straight Amulet at the same volume, I lose some of that dimensionality but all the troubles go away too.

I'm not sure what else to try.

Matt

Hi Matt,

Talking a while back with Gary Hull of Trance Audio, I asked him if he'll ever develop a Trance Amulet/Mic Dual-Source system? He was quick to say something to the effect that you don't need an onboard mic with a Trance Amulet System because the Trance system captures vibrations from several directions to render an almost mic-like tone. I've found Gary, Trance's owner, to be quite humble about touting his systems, so I don't think he was implying any snobbery regarding his Amulet technology, but only straight-forward, experience-garnered information from his standpoint. I wonder if it's possible to get a really great-sounding ToneDexter WaveMap using a Trance Amulet system? I guess I'll find out when my ToneDexter and Shure SM81 arrive next week. I'm thinking the SM81 could be or should be the go to mic for training the ToneDexter as the SM81 doesn't seem to get any bad press or negative comments when used on acoustic guitars.

Ken

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Matt,

Are you saying that you still have "dimensionality" issues with the character knob turned all the way counter-clockwise (to get the minimum possible amount of airyness and spaciousness in the signal)?

If so, I'd still try it in some actual gigging settings before giving up on ToneDexter, or giving up on using ToneDexter with that particular rig.

Yes, the character knob is all the way counter clockwise.

I'm going to try and get all this set up outside this afternoon to make sure it's not just the room that is causing the trouble.

I've decided it isn't really an option for me to keep the ToneDexter and NOT use it with my Collings.

I've gone back and forth on this but I bought that guitar to be my main gigging guitar. Collings D1 with the Amulet in a Calton! The ultimate road guitar! I'd be leaving that at home to take a special edition guitar (only 75 made) on the road just to use the ToneDexter. I also can't see replacing the Trance with an under saddle transducer in hopes of having better luck with the ToneDexter.

Lots to sort out!
Matt

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

Yes, the character knob is all the way counter clockwise.

I'm going to try and get all this set up outside this afternoon to make sure it's not just the room that is causing the trouble.

I've decided it isn't really an option for me to keep the ToneDexter and NOT use it with my Collings.

I've gone back and forth on this but I bought that guitar to be my main gigging guitar. Collings D1 with the Amulet in a Calton! The ultimate road guitar! I'd be leaving that at home to take a special edition guitar (only 75 made) on the road just to use the ToneDexter. I also can't see replacing the Trance with an under saddle transducer in hopes of having better luck with the ToneDexter.

Lots to sort out!
Matt

Matt, can you get your hands on a Shure SM81? It would be nice to hear if it would make a difference with the ToneDexter/Trance WaveMap.

[LookerBob]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I also can't see replacing the Trance with an under saddle transducer in hopes of having better luck with the ToneDexter.

... but this might give you better results with not just TD, but with what you had pre-TD. Or a K&K... which doesn't require modding the guitar.

Going from Lyric to K&K made a huge difference for me, and my overall sound is far better now. Doesn't mean there aren't challenges, but... worth considering. You could cover costs by selling the Trance.

[midwinter]

LookerBob, that 3rd position sounds pretty good.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Matt, can you get your hands on a Shure SM81? It would be nice to hear if it would make a difference with the ToneDexter/Trance WaveMap.

I don't have a lot of local music contacts so I don't know about finding an SM81. I'm curious to try one too so I'll keep looking!

Originally Posted by LookerBob

Or a K&K... which doesn't require modding the guitar.

Except for the super glue!

I'm just kidding I know people love their K&Ks. They just aren't for me (and I've given them a good try.)

The list of pickups and preamps I've tried is exhausting! The Trance Audio Amulet M is my favorite to date. It suits my playing style really well and at least in this guitar, I'm quite happy with the tone plugging straight in. I don't think I could talk myself into removing it!

And....I don't think I'll have to! I had a chance to set up my PA outside and do some more fooling around I think I've found the magic solution.

I make a volume adjustment when I switch from strumming with a pick to playing fingerstyle with bare fingers. I do that with the little volume wheel in the sound hole.

In all of my testing with the ToneDexter, I turned that volume wheel all the way up figuring I'd set my strumming level and then use the boost for fingerstyle.

But if I turn that wheel back to my usual strumming level (and adjust the ToneDexter pickup level trim knob up to compensate) I get rid of all of the problems I was hearing before. Now I'm getting the depth and dimensionality of the mic without the trouble! And then I just roll that wheel up when I put down the pick.

I've run into this before and I should have remembered!

Anyway, I really liked what I was hearing in the short time I got to play and my favorite WaveMap was one that I made with an SM57!

I'm quite sure I'm not done messing around but at least I know I can successfully use this with the Trance!

Thanks for the advice and the help!
Matt

[SpruceTop]

Thanks, Matt! I'm glad to hear the Trance Amulet/ToneDexter is working out for you!

[Uncle Pauhana]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

…I think I've found the magic solution.

Glad to hear it… I was strangely invested in you getting the Amulet and ToneDexter working together!

.

[Vancebo]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Hi Matt,

Talking a while back with Gary Hull of Trance Audio, I asked him if he'll ever develop a Trance Amulet/Mic Dual-Source system? He was quick to say something to the effect that you don't need an onboard mic with a Trance Amulet System because the Trance system captures vibrations from several directions to render an almost mic-like tone. I've found Gary, Trance's owner, to be quite humble about touting his systems, so I don't think he was implying any snobbery regarding his Amulet technology, but only straight-forward, experience-garnered information from his standpoint. I wonder if it's possible to get a really great-sounding ToneDexter WaveMap using a Trance Amulet system? I guess I'll find out when my ToneDexter and Shure SM81 arrive next week. I'm thinking the SM81 could be or should be the go to mic for training the ToneDexter as the SM81 doesn't seem to get any bad press or negative comments when used on acoustic guitars.

Ken

Hello Ken.

Can't wait to hear about it. I am totally up for trying out new gear. I am kind of agreeing with this statement. The Trance is already very mic-like tone. I will soon post my experience with comparing my Dazzo Equipped GS Mini with my Trance Equipped GS Mini. It was interesting but I don't want to change the subject or spill the beans on my new thread but "Mic Like: does come to mind.

[dannyg1]

I don't have a Tonedexter but have plenty of experience using SM81s in both stage and recording situations and its a mic that has harshness in the high end. I can't stand the things and would rather use c1000's if I had the choice.

If you're looking for the finest relatively affordable mic to use, look for an Earthworks omni. I'd even try the dbx/behringer pencil Omni's as likely better than the SM81.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Uncle Pauhana

Glad to hear it… I was strangely invested in you getting the Amulet and ToneDexter working together!

.

I love this post! It made me smile!

I too am glad to have some good results with the Trance through the ToneDexter.

I still prefer the J45 with the Baggs Element. That might have to do with the string attack with an under saddle transducer that James mentioned in the other thread.

It could also be that even acoustically, there is something about the J45. To me it sounds exactly like an acoustic guitar should sound. The Collings is great but my J45 just has something magical about it.

Matt

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I love this post! It made me smile!

I too am glad to have some good results with the Trance through the ToneDexter.

I still prefer the J45 with the Baggs Element. That might have to do with the string attack with an under saddle transducer that James mentioned in the other thread.

It could also be that even acoustically, there is something about the J45. To me it sounds exactly like an acoustic guitar should sound. The Collings is great but my J45 just has something magical about it.

Matt

Matt, I'm a bit confused as to what you were doing with the Trance Amulet M-VT wheel and the Tondexter. Would you mind clarifying?

[LookerBob]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I'm just kidding I know people love their K&Ks. They just aren't for me (and I've given them a good try.)

Well, they weren't for me either by themselves, but with ToneDexter it seems like a good combination. With respect, I don't think we can think of pickups as pickups themselves when we bring TD into the conversation, we can only think of what the results are like with TD.

e.g. For available options, I liked Lyric better than the other things I could get pre-TD, but w/ TD, it didn't work well and the K&K did.

[LookerBob]

Anyone have a line on a case that fits TD well?